Author Topic: Let's talk LEDs......  (Read 1762 times)

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Offline pinsanity

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Let's talk LEDs......
« on: February 12, 2013, 02:07:06 AM »
I have decided to finally bite the bullet and LED one of my pins that is currently undergoing restoration. I have always been a traditionalist when it comes to lighting and much prefer the "warmth" of an incandescent globe so this will be my first venture into fully LED'ing a pin (the plan was to LED the entire pin rather than bits here and there - perhaps this is not the way to go?)

I have done some investigating on the pricing and buying in bulk from overseas seems to be the best solution as they offer discounts for large orders - rather than the individual kits.

My questions are related more to the installation and the colour coordination practical side for those who have done this to their pins.

1. Do I need to colour coordinate to match the insert for best effect (purple insert with purple LED) or can a plain white be put under the purple insert and look just as effective?

2. Flat Top/Concave/Frosted lenses - does it matter? and any preference of one over the other?

3. LED's for the backbox - plain white or colour coordinated to match the translite artwork?

4. LED's for the GI - yes or no?

5. Will the Ablaze 1 LED versions be sufficient for most under playfield inserts or do I have to step up to the Ablaze 4, 5 or 9's. Is it overkill? (Bright is good for the wow factor, but the machine still needs to be playable without a welding mask).  :lol


Any feedback/info based on practical experience and application would be appreciated.








Offline Pop Bumper Pete

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2013, 02:48:41 AM »
What machine?
I use the LEDs from pinballlife.com
If it is a modern Stern, I put a colored LED underneath the colored instert

I use 3 LED bulbs
I am yet to use frosted bulbs, that is next on my list as bare ones are too focused in one area

there is no 'Right' way to LED a game
it is up to you as to how you want your game to look

Offline robm

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2013, 07:42:37 AM »
Similar thoughts to Pete.

Ablaze 1's are too dull in my opinion - unless you had a game with heaps and heaps of white inserts.  I generally have used the Ablaze 3's everywhere and am happy with the results.  Appreciate that some people may not like them on GI - but i think they are great - i tend to colour match some areas of GI (to the surrounding plastic) as it tends to give more definition to the plastic and a nice glow/light behind stand up targets etc.

Best colours in my expereince to colour match are blue, green and purple - orange is probably worth matching as well.  Red makes a bit of difference, but not much, yellow looks much the same with whites or yellows.

For the backbox, its can change from game to game in my opinion - i reckon doing mainly white but then highlight one or two features with blue or green works well.

Flashers are blinding with LEDs - probably not necessary

Offline Homepin

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 08:51:09 AM »
You should be aware of the ghosting that is VERY obvious on some games more than others. I would be researching this FIRST and finding out if the machine you wish to do is OK with LEDs.

Some ROMs you can have the program modified and that minimises the ghosting effect but this doesn't work on ALL machines so best to start with that investigation rather than "LEDing to make it look pretty" as the first goal....
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Offline Retropin

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 09:40:37 AM »
You should be aware of the ghosting that is VERY obvious on some games more than others. I would be researching this FIRST and finding out if the machine you wish to do is OK with LEDs.

Some ROMs you can have the program modified and that minimises the ghosting effect but this doesn't work on ALL machines so best to start with that investigation rather than "LEDing to make it look pretty" as the first goal....

This is all going to get messy eventually as we are not going to be able to buy #47's #44's or #455 one day and instead will be forced to use LED.
Self flashing LED instead of #455??? They dont exist as far as im aware.

All my old classic woodrails with ghosting LED's and no flash in the BG...... I dont like it!

Offline Strangeways

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2013, 09:51:46 AM »
I think it is a natural progression for your pins. From what I've seen of your work, they will compliment your standards. I'm a traditionalist, but I was converted by Greg. The first pin I did was ToM, and the results were stunning, although I've learnt that you need to take each machine on a "case by case" basis. Some lend well to LEDs and some don't. Ghosting is an issue with super bright LEDs, but you can tone down to 180 standard and still get the effect with less noticeable ghosting.

Experimentation is the key. That's why I don't buy kits, as that's someone else's design that might not be appropriate to my tastes. I use a combination of 90 and 180 degree LEDs - depending on the inserts.

1. Do I need to colour coordinate to match the insert for best effect (purple insert with purple LED) or can a plain white be put under the purple insert and look just as effective?

I use the color of the insert as a guide. Purple against purple. Best thing to do is test that insert with a cool white and see if you prefer that ?

2. Flat Top/Concave/Frosted lenses - does it matter? and any preference of one over the other?

Preference is personal. Try a 180 degree, a 90 degree and a super bright. I've not tried frosted. This is where experimentation is the key. Whether the machine "ghosts" the LEDs is another issue all together.

3. LED's for the backbox - plain white or colour coordinated to match the translite artwork?

This is where I spend a lot of time. I use 180 degree only, otherwise it is too overbearing. Co ordinate the LED with the colour that the light is behind. Cool whites where there is too much color. A lot of fiddling here !

4. LED's for the GI - yes or no?

Yes. At least Cool White 180 degrees. You can co ordinate with the surrounding plastics. I did this with T3 and it looked stunning.

5. Will the Ablaze 1 LED versions be sufficient for most under playfield inserts or do I have to step up to the Ablaze 4, 5 or 9's. Is it overkill? (Bright is good for the wow factor, but the machine still needs to be playable without a welding mask).

Depends on the game, the size of the Insert and whether ghosting will be an issue. I tried Super Brights on T3 inserts, and it ghosted to the point of being unplayable. Have 90 / 180 / super brights in stock and experiment. It is your game, so it needs to suit your tastes.


I would STRONGLY advise that you keep away from the crappy eBay LEDs sold on the local Aussie market. I've seen these fall out of games and I've had a few games with strange problems - especially older games with #89 LEDs. I buy ONLY from RTBB, but the other quality LEDs from cointaker etc are just as good.
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Offline joele

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2013, 10:20:51 AM »
I have LEDs in all four pins, almost fully now (GI, backbox, playfield and some flashers too)..

I have some, I believe cointaker (though not sure cheap or better ones?), in a PIN I bought, I pulled them all out and put the pinballcenter.eu NOFLIX PLUS in, I much prefer them as they have tiny capacitors in them so the go on and particularly off like a normal light (not like strobe lights that distract me)..


1. Do I need to colour coordinate to match the insert for best effect (purple insert with purple LED) or can a plain white be put under the purple insert and look just as effective?

I colour co-ordinate to match the insert, you do you get far more colour..

2. Flat Top/Concave/Frosted lenses - does it matter? and any preference of one over the other?

Under playfield I use flattop or flattop on a little movable stem for the lights don't face the insert (90 degree set).

3. LED's for the backbox - plain white or colour coordinated to match the translite artwork?

You can have fun putting colours in but I am lazy and just use the cheaper non PLUS (no capacitor needed as they stay on most of the time) in the warm white...

4. LED's for the GI - yes or no?

I use the frosted top warm white (they are warm but not incandescent warm) regular NOFLIX (not plus as they stay on)..
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 10:23:31 AM by joele »
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Offline pinsanity

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2013, 11:18:58 AM »
Thanks for the responses.Great info that will help immensely with the order quantity, type and colour combinations.

Machine is Medieval Madness but if I am happy with the results will probably gradually convert the others over hence the bulk order.

Looks like there is a lot of choices and decisions to be made.



I have a number of playfields from various games in storage from when I have done playfield swaps so colour matching the inserts to LED's shouldn't be a problem.

I was thinking maybe we could start up a sticky thread which has this info for others to use if they are considering LED'ing their machine?

EG:

Machine Name: Medieval Madness
Section                             LED type/colour
Playfield                            10 555 orange, 8 555 blue, 8 555 red, 5 555 white, 10 906 red
Backbox                            6 906 blue, 4 906 red, 30 555 white

Offline joele

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 11:48:03 AM »
Machine Name: Medieval Madness
Section                             LED type/colour
Playfield                            10 555 orange, 8 555 blue, 8 555 red, 5 555 white, 10 906 red
Backbox                            6 906 blue, 4 906 red, 30 555 white

just go here

http://www.pinballcenter.eu/catalog/noflix-pinball-leds-noflix-kits-c-22_143.html?language=english

they have the kits for many many games, even if you don't buy from them you can see what they include in each pack (which colours) they have been spot on so far for me..
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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2013, 01:09:09 PM »
Dont buy orange or yellow Leds, waste of time, use bright white under these insert colours and u cant go wrong.
Red for red, purple for purple, green for green, white for clear and so on. Somebody else said pinball-life and i have gone that way as well, always in bulk.

G.I lighting is great to do with bright white, i never bother with flashers, no need unless u want to go from white to a colour. Ghost roms are avail ofcourse, machine dependant.  Have fun with it.
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Offline pinball god

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 02:23:58 PM »
Dont buy orange or yellow Leds, waste of time, use bright white under these insert colours and u cant go wrong.
Red for red, purple for purple, green for green, white for clear and so on. Somebody else said pinball-life and i have gone that way as well, always in bulk.

G.I lighting is great to do with bright white, i never bother with flashers, no need unless u want to go from white to a colour. Ghost roms are avail ofcourse, machine dependant.  Have fun with it.
I agree with the orange/yellow comment. The white gives a better orange and yellow result. although I went ballistic with leds I have changed my ways with it. I think GIs are best candescent and too  much leds can detract from the gameplay. A little blinding for me. I have used 3 leds primarily to form this opinion.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 04:21:33 PM by pinball god »
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Offline Discodan

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 01:52:51 PM »

just go here

http://www.pinballcenter.eu/catalog/noflix-pinball-leds-noflix-kits-c-22_143.html?language=english

they have the kits for many many games, even if you don't buy from them you can see what they include in each pack (which colours) they have been spot on so far for me..

Has anyone used one of their kits? they seem to be quite cheap so I'm curious to see if it's poor quality or just a good deal

One of these at 50 euro seems reasonable
http://www.pinballcenter.eu/catalog/the-addams-family-noflix-led-playfield-kit-p-456.html?language=english

cheers
d

Offline joele

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 02:31:40 PM »
Has anyone used one of their kits? they seem to be quite cheap so I'm curious to see if it's poor quality or just a good deal

One of these at 50 euro seems reasonable
http://www.pinballcenter.eu/catalog/the-addams-family-noflix-led-playfield-kit-p-456.html?language=english

cheers
d


I have three of their kits, no duds, and like them far more than the cointaker LEDs that came with one of my pins.. Though they were the super bright and 4-led cointaker ones not the premium...

The thing with the pinballcenter ones is it is best to use the PLUS versions (non flicker, non ghosting), keep in mind when you go through checkout he subtracts the 19% VAT.. Ohh and the kits do not include GI, just the playfield lights..
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 02:33:19 PM by joele »
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Offline Discodan

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2013, 03:02:34 PM »
Thanks for that, I'll go with the PLUS option on your recommendation then. Thanks for the tip on the GI not being included

Offline pinoffski

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Re: Let's talk LEDs......
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2013, 05:34:58 PM »
Started to put leds in WH2O
i just got frustrated with it.

Will now try a cointaker kit for TOM .
will see how that looks.

Is there any web sites out there that tells you
were and what types to put in a playfield for a certain look ?