The simplicity of old EM and SS pinballs.

[Freiherr]

What is it about the old EM abd SS machines that is lacking in new DMDs? I have often had this question in the back of my mind since I came back to pinball several years ago. As a kid, I spent whole days and nights playing the arcades back in the 70s and when I see youngsters play at Timezone, they barely have a game or two on one machine. Even my 3 girls at home play a maximum 3 or 4 games at a time on AC/DC and Avengers before calling it quits.
Well, the last few weeks, I have been restoring my old Flash and the girls were silently observing my work. I knew they wanted a game or two but I kept saying "later" as there were adjustements and odd fixes here and there. There are still some cupped inserts and odd contacts to fix but I nevertheless decided to let them test out the old Flash. Well, that was kind of a mistake, as I can't get them off! My seven year old in particular has played it this afternoon for over 5 hours! My 11 yo also started to play, and she also is hooked.
I think what is so addictive on the older machines is the simplistic chalenge and rule set which is so endearing to the youngsters. I explained the rules to my kids in about 30 seconds and they understood them first time. I still do not myself understand the deep and complex ruleset of AC/DC or Avengers.
The playfield on Flash is simple and all visible with no ramps, toys or bright LEDs in your face. You can see the ball anywhere and everywhere. Not so on the newer machines. The scoring, ball in play, number of games info is always there and not obscured by DMD cartoons and play info.
Now, Flash can be mean at times with the angle of the target banks and the out lane drains, just like AC/DC and my kids accept the drains as a challenge. They still keep gravitating towards Flash more often than the 2 newer pins.
They even asked me if it is possible to buy new machines like Flash. What I think they meant was that if there was a simple rule and layout pinball manufactured today, they would rather get that than anything coming from Stern or JJP. Just goes to show that we always thaught that video killed pinball but my kids think that pinball deep ruleset and cluttered layout is frightening youngsters away.
Here is a photo of my 7 yo glued to Flash and loving it.

[Homepin]

Yes, I'm hearing you and agree - I'm doing something about it as well.......

[Ballywannabe]

Yep, I think the older games are closer to 'gaming' machines.  You get a fairly short ball time to complete some (seemingly) simple tasks to achieve free games.  If you don't succeed you feel compelled to put another 20 in the slot and try again.

New games, unless you are completely incompetent, give you a fairly long ball time to achieve a large number of convoluted and involved tasks after which you may or may not achieve a free game, depending how good the players before you have been.

I prefer the older games for their addictive power and simple objectives, but also enjoy playing the newer games for their depth and need to learn involved rule sets.

cheers
Ian

[spook]

Freiherr .... you really need to keep those thoughts to yourself or you will finish up driving up the prices of great machines like Flash and I won't manage to get the second one I'm looking for!   

Seriously though, I agree .... sometimes the simple rules and challenges are the most absorbing!  I, for one, am a long time fan of Flash!

[Pop Bumper Pete]

you have to learn how to play a DMD
older machines it is simple, hit the flashing light, knock down all the targets
it is why pool and cards were popular during the EM period. most people knew the rules before playing a game

[Mr Pinbologist]

Good to see that your kids are enjoying playing your Flash Freiherr   there might be hope for the younger generation yet!!

I like the simplicity of the older EM and SS games, and the artwork is much more appealing to me on a lot of them too. With the exception of a handful of DMD games i never really got into DMDs/alphanumeric games much.. its almost like you need a university degree to understand what you have to do  
I know DMD games are a lot more popular with a lot of people, just about every game i have been asked to repair in the last few years has been a DMD or late 80s onwards Alphanumeric display game. I reckon they can be a pain in the arse to work on sometimes, especially if i have to do them in someones home.

I really have taken a liking in particular to Bride of Pinbot, i used to play it on location when it first came out and never really understood the rules @ that time. But having repaired/restored three of them in the last two years, having had two of those come thru my workshop gave me the opportunity to understand the ruleset a lot better, so it is a title that has grown on me somewhat   Having said that though, the older games will always be favourites of mine to own, play and work on  

Re Flash, I just bought my old one back from AP member 'howzat' (he needed the $$ for his virtual pin project i'm working on for him). So Flash is back in the resto queue to get the full treatment.. cab repaint, PF restore, some fairly extensive BG work etc. I already have brand new plastics to go on it, and will be buying the correct legs for it (it currently has rusted ribbed Wms legs). It may end up being put up for sale again when done.. whether it does or not will depend largely on my financial situation @ that time, and/or other games i might want

[Pintoxicated]

As they say, sometimes the simple things in life are often the best.

Classic and beautiful artwork, easy to understand for young, old and female and best of all, much easier to work on and tinker with than a DMD machine.

[goodolddays]

I was only saying to a new guy at our league meet last night , who is into arcade but not pinball, that you need to play . Once you play you get addicted . (he was mostly standing around watching us) .

I think that is the secret with SS for the younger generation . Rules are easy to understand so they start to play, trying to beat the machine . Then they get hooked   

[Strangeways]

"What is it about the old EM abd SS machines that is lacking in new DMDs?"

DMDs need gizmos, toys and gimmicks to be as playable as an EM or SS. You need to spend hours and hours working out the rules and then you can finally look at mastering the game. Take a classic like "Drop A Card". Easy rules but VERY hard to achieve. But at least the player understands what needs to be done. It all comes down to the rules. You can tell a child the rules on any EM or SS (except Spectrum) and they can understand the game. You can't explain the rules of ST TNG to a child as it is a deep ruleset.

Flash is a universally loved game because it is one of the best playing SS machines. It is easy for a child to play Flash and not be overwhelmed by toys, scoops and ramps. Some of the older generation don't "get" DMDs as they frustrated when the ball spends more time obscured behind complicated ramps. The fun is gone the moment the ball disappears !

Having said that, the toys on games does attract younger kids. My son loved Addams Family because he thought "thing" was real. He was scared of the Ringmaster. My daughter loves Rudy. Both my kids are pre teens, but they love pinball.

I think the natural development of pinball became too complicated for kids who liked simple things like Galaga and Frogger. Pinball is more of a "thinking kid's game". These days, kids learn a new game an become quickly bored of it. Pinball is just a big box that looks the same every time they look at it, but each game is different. No two games play the same.

Kids are lucky to have any form of pinball in the games room. Whether it be DMD, SS or EM. I notice the only family member that does not like Pinball is the wife !

[Pintoxicated]

I notice the only family member that does not like Pinball is the wife !

Hmm, you too hey!

[ddstoys]

So true .  I much prefer the older games and the game that people seem most addicted to is my 1934 pinball with no flippers I've heard more "just one more game" on that than any of my machines

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Also, with older games, you the player, is in control

too many times with DMDs, you hit something and suddenly the machine takes hold of your ball with a magnet, puts on a lightshow, makes a lot of noise, then releases your ball again
And the player is left wondering WTF?

[Crick60]

Classic and beautiful artwork, easy to understand for young, old and female and best of all, much easier to work on and tinker with than a DMD machine.

I can't help but agree with the artwork comments, a lot of thought and attention went into the 70's pins and I can't help getting nostalgic about the early Fluro colours with the chimes ringing away and the whir of an EM score board fluttering along.

[Steve2010]

I grew up in the 2nd half of the 70's as a young teenager playing pins, and have always been attached to EMs and SS.  Sorry if I offend any of the later generation collectors, but I never could (or still can't) get into a playfield where it is a mass of ramps and stuff that obscure the ball view.  Way too much clutter for my liking.

I think the beauty of the EM and SS era is their simplicity, together with the artwork of the time (and there are some titles in there whose artwork is and will be timeless).  Bally were prolific with the titles that were coming out in the 1977-1982 period.  There are some really classics from that timeframe.

[Retropin]

I did reply to this posting way back but if I hit 'POST" at the same time as someone else I lose all that ive written!

No secret that all my machines are pre DMD, but ive often wished that at least one of them had a ramp shot.. I do like ramps.
Id like to see pinball get back to more basics of the game.. it seems that as the industry developed it got more and more convoluted and complicated. Its a natural progression I guess, but for me there is waaaay too much going on for my liking on modern games and I just cant seem to feel any passion for them.. I don't even like the artwork but that's print for you.. allows you to do much more but it doesn't necessarily equate to " better".
Music in the 70's ended up its own arse with Prog Rock... things got more and more complicated and longer and longer.. punk came along and took it right back to its basics and blew the world away... maybe pinball will do the same?