Author Topic: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch  (Read 2800 times)

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Offline Brunswick Brawler

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2015, 06:04:10 PM »
You would think with the long list of new pinball companies, Stern would cut their prices to make it harder for the competition.  It's what the supermarkets do to smaller operators.  Drop prices to drive out the small guys, then once they are gone, up go the prices again.

...With current pinball prices, you would think that the opportunity is right for someone to setup a factory in a China %$%, release their first few machines at competitive prices until their set up costs are recovered and the factory is up to full speed.  Then slowly lower their prices while increasing their production.  Then you will see the hurt for all US and Eurpoean operators.

Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2015, 06:34:43 PM »
Stern USA and Whizbang will need to take a close look at their pricing and determine with probable feedback which is the best way to proceed.
AMD is caught in the middle. They need to make a dollar and the price they are paying Stern may well be higher per unit because they obviously are not buying this title in bulk ?

What do people think is a realistic or reasonable price foe Whoa Mellie.
Because I haven't seen detailed photos and a gameplay video, I would have said $7850 like a Stern Pro. That's my initial thought.
It may go back down or up slightly once I see the Whoa Nellie in person.

Taking seriousness aside, MEN have been known to pay big money for anything female with a great large beautiful set of tits ! Lol

Maybe the boobies have gone to the frontal lobes of the bean counters at Sterns pricing Department. Lol
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Offline swinks

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2015, 07:52:30 PM »
You would think with the long list of new pinball companies, Stern would cut their prices to make it harder for the competition.  It's what the supermarkets do to smaller operators.  Drop prices to drive out the small guys, then once they are gone, up go the prices again.

you would think that would be the case but with boutique pinball the design costs may not be as high, their hours much longer, their shed rental lower but the crunch comes down to buying  / purchasing costs per unit are higher which bumps the price up.

I have been watching this for a while and strongly believe that JJP stepped it up by approaching building pins and setting a price to reflect their higher quality product and getting sales as that is what alot in the market want (new technology and higher quality). Then I believe Stern probably thought crap JJP are selling a crap load of pins at a higher price - why don't we rise our price to cash in on the available sales and in came all the premium and le options and there starts the vicious circle of pin prices radically going up in price and then companies like Dutch Pinball & Heighway coming in with a high end pin prices and granted some of these maybe granted but Stern are enjoying the higher prices.

With the last few years of higher prices, 2nd hand pins have risen alot and am sure people are running out of money for a fancy but simple toy in the corner.


As for the value of The Whoa Nellie, since it has no ramps, dmd programming, playfield toys maybe $7000 AUD would help a heap of sales, whats the point of being too high even for the US market and you go to all the effort of manufacture setup and lucky to make a few hundred sales, may as well be competitive and make people think they are getting a bargain and get a heap of sales.

Offline Freiherr

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2015, 08:27:59 PM »
Not sure about Stern coming in later with the LE premium price to follow JJPs higher quality price. The Stern model must have been there earlier than JJPs.
I remember playing my NIB BIBLE more than 12 months before guys were still asking “when is WOZ coming to OZ”.
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Offline Brunswick Brawler

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2015, 05:31:27 PM »
Not sure about Stern coming in later with the LE premium price to follow JJPs higher quality price. The Stern model must have been there earlier than JJPs.
I remember playing my NIB BIBLE more than 12 months before guys were still asking “when is WOZ coming to OZ”.

Stern introduced Premium Limited Editions after JJP started up.  I know that well, as JJP started up just as I got into pinball (I thought it died in the 70s, and I squandered the 90s pinball scene by being focused on work!).

JJP announced they were going to do a WOZ just prior to Tron being released, and perhaps even prior to Rolling Stones.  Upto that point, Stern had LEs but they were only eye candy improvements to a standard edition.  JJP triggered Stern to up spec and up cost their LE playfields, starting with Transformers LE.   They later introduced Premium with ACDC's release.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 05:34:34 PM by Brunswick Brawler »

Offline Freiherr

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2015, 06:02:35 PM »
I understand, but my point is that Stern released (for example) AC/DC in April 2012. JJPs first pin WOZ was released March 2013. Stern could not have said "jees JJP is selling squillions of WOZ machines so we better put out LEs and Pros of AC/DC and capitalise with a higher price".
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Offline swinks

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2015, 06:04:04 PM »
found this which I think supports the theory

"Then there's the small matter of competition in the pinball market.  Stern's claim to be "The only maker of REAL pinball games on the planet" is about to be negated by Jersey Jack Pinball - a company making full-featured games to counter Stern's back-to-basics approach.  Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP) is appealing to the serious collectors who want more in their games than Stern has been offering of late and are prepared to pay accordingly.

Tron is Stern's first move towards the ground JJP is occupying - adding a little extra hardware and producing a premium version with more hardware and additional rules.  Plus, of course, a higher price tag, taking it every closer to the price point for JJP's The Wizard of Oz."


from Pinball News
http://www.pinballnews.com/games/tron/index6a.html



Offline swinks

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2015, 06:08:37 PM »
this is what I have collated showing the MSRP launch prices of machines for the last 5 years


March / 2015 / Whoa Nellie / Boutique / $6499

January / 2015 / WWE / Pro / $5495
January / 2015 / WWE / LE / $8595

December / 2014 / The Walking Dead / Premium / $7595
September / 2014 / The Walking Dead / Pro / $5995
September / 2014 / The Walking Dead / LE / $8595

June / 2014 / Iron Man Vault / Pro / $5495

March / 2014 / Mustang / Pro / $5395
March / 2014 / Mustang / Premium / $7495
March / 2014 / Mustang / LE / $8495

December / 2013 / AC/DC Luci Premium / $7495

September / 2013 / Star Trek / Pro / $5385
September / 2013 / Star Trek / Premium / $7495
September / 2013 / Star Trek / LE / $8795

April / 2013 / Metallica / Pro / $4995
April / 2013 / Metallica / Premium / $6995
April / 2013 / Metallica / LE / $7595

November / 2012 / Avengers / Pro / $5699
November / 2012 / Avengers / LE (2 models) / $8099

October / 2012 / Transformer "The Pin" / $4000

June / 2012 / X-Men / Pro / $5699
June / 2012 / X-Men / LE (2 models) / $7999

March / 2012 / AC/DC / Pro / $5699
March / 2012 / AC/DC / Premium / $7699
March / 2012 / AC/DC / LE (2 models) / $8499

September / 2011 / Transformer / Pro / $4795
September / 2011 / Transformer / LE (3 models ?) / $6295 ? (need to confirm)

May / 2011 / Tron / Pro / $4799
May / 2011 / Tron / LE / $5999

January / 2011 / Rolling Stones / Pro / $4799
January / 2011 / Rolling Stones / LE / $5999

August / 2011 / Avatar / Pro / $4799
August / 2011 / Avatar / LE / $5999

LE's did not really exist before Avatar

April / 2010 / IronMan / Pro / $4799
April / 2010 / IronMan / Classic (Home) / $3799
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 06:49:38 PM by swinks »

Offline Brunswick Brawler

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2015, 06:32:17 PM »
I understand, but my point is that Stern released (for example) AC/DC in April 2012. JJPs first pin WOZ was released March 2013. Stern could not have said "jees JJP is selling squillions of WOZ machines so we better put out LEs and Pros of AC/DC and capitalise with a higher price".

Remember that JJP sold their 1,000 LEs very quickly, on the promise of 'the best game ever made'. I'd say that is what triggered Stern.

Not long prior to that, Stern released a home version of Ironman that Stern couldn't sell.  It was a cut down of the standard edition at a reduced price.  Gary later stated that in regard to Ironman home edition, they got the home market wrong.  JJP helped showed Stern that the home market was prepared to pay a lot more for a better featured game.  It was the operator market that was more price sensitive.

Offline swinks

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2015, 06:47:34 PM »
here is a good overview of JJP

http://www.pingamejournal.com/jerseyjack/

here is the initial set price:

- deposits taken before 1st March 2011 for the standard were set at $6500 USD
- deposits after 1st March 2011 were $7500 USD
- and pretty sure the le's to follow were $8500 USD

this coincides with the AC/DC pricing jumping up on release as the start of WOZ production


then Nov 2013 a new LE is announced at $9000
http://www.pinballnews.com/games/wizardofoz/index41.html
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 07:03:27 PM by swinks »

Offline pinoffski

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2015, 07:50:40 PM »
I was critical about stern marketing for AU
if they want to keep there market here

was not bagging out AMD

you can buy a new pin for kr.44.000,00
it works out at about $5100US


Offline Retropin

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2015, 08:17:32 PM »
Realistic price for Nellie would be in the $4K range. Remember that the manual ball lift was dropped ( saving $$'s) and electronic chimes incorporated instead of real ones ( again saving $$$'s). Sterns new SPIKE system is an integrated board which once again would save some $$'s
Having read on Pinside what Dennis Nordman and Greg Freres have to say, the spiel is that the manual lift would scare DMD players away and electronic chimes so operators can turn down the sound.
Sounds like a lot of hot air to me because the price tag alone will mean that hardly any will be sited and although trying to not be too cynical, the scaling back coupled with the high price suggests a price gouge.
There is of course a basic price to manufacture ANY pinball.. even if it had one flipper and 1 bumper, it would still have a minimum price to produce. The extras that come after that are pennies that add up. Problem here is that there aren't really any extras apart from the score reels. These are controlled by stepping motors which is EXACTLY how Retro Pinball did it with KOD which can still be bought for UNDER $4K.

Offline swinks

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2015, 07:53:56 AM »
And to keep the prices updated:

May 2015 / Kiss / Pro / $5995 USD
May 2015 / Kiss / Premium / $7595 USD
May 2015 / Kiss / LE / $8795 USD

$1 USD = $0.81 AUD
 x 1.24 for rough Aussie price.

AMD Web Prices are:
May 2015 / Kiss / Pro / $7950 USD
May 2015 / Kiss / Premium / $9950 USD
May 2015 / Kiss / LE / sold out

maybe someone can state what the Aussie price of the LE for historical sake.

Interesting that all the machines went up between $0 - $500 USD since the WWE pin / TWD pin, Stern moved into a new factory, the system is running on spike which is cheaper. Kiss is a cool looking game but apart from the moulded head can't see too much extra in machine manufacturing cost though I dare say the licence would of been a little dearer and Stern probably know that they will sell a heap. At least AMD only bumped their price $100 since the last game release.

But with the license you would think the licence cost would be fairly equal across all 3 models.

Interestingly the US MRRP went up inconsistently:
Kiss Pro versus WWE Pro - $500
Kiss Premium versus TWD Premium - $0
Kiss LE versus WWE LE - $200
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 08:10:48 AM by swinks »

Offline Cow Corner

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2015, 08:06:53 AM »
Prices go up but the games stay the same.
Sounds like price gouging to me.
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Offline Toads

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Re: Stern Price Comparison - Price Watch
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2015, 08:32:44 AM »
Not sure about Stern coming in later with the LE premium price to follow JJPs higher quality price. The Stern model must have been there earlier than JJPs.
I remember playing my NIB BIBLE more than 12 months before guys were still asking “when is WOZ coming to OZ”.

Stern introduced Premium Limited Editions after JJP started up.  I know that well, as JJP started up just as I got into pinball (I thought it died in the 70s, and I squandered the 90s pinball scene by being focused on work!).



I remember this. Stern called it the super LE.