why did pinball 2000 fail

[pinball god]

Interested in your opinions on this matter. It's documented that it was a financial reason, but then why hasn't stern tried their hand at it?

You may contribute more insight by stating personal reason like "it's just not pinball" etc

[indazone gav]

Pinball 2000 did not fail!! It was and is a fantastic platform that was never given a chance to reach it's full potential. Williams closed for other reasons, mainly the greed of Nick Nicastro who was NOT A PASSIONATE PINBALL PERSON. He decided that he would rather make shitloads of money on goddam pokies that stick with putting out brilliant pinball machines that just may have been on the cusp of turning the industry around

[Creech]

Too true Gav but the bottom line on their balance sheet went north once they made that decision. It was an economic decision only, no passion involved and you're right, their love for pinball had evaporated by that point. What a shame. One of America's most iconic companies that revolutionised pinball just divorced itself from it overnight.

[markc]

after playing Wizards blocks and seeing PB200 playboy  , I am unsure why  these  , well at least WB  hasnt been done yet
I am sure someone will make a few WB
to me I enjoyed WB better than RFM and SW  
Maybe Chuck can confirm that Nucore will be able to play wizard blocks


rfm was better than Star wars  but I can confirm I have seen alot of star wars parts ...

[indazone gav]

Mr Prick Nicastro didn't even offer up the business for sale as an ongoing, working manufacturer. Surely there would have been people interesting in having a crack before all the great minds left and the rust set in?

[Strangeways]

From what I can understand - WMS did not want a Pinball section - regardless of whether it was profitable or not. It was a bad decision but stockholders were duped into thinking that there was no future in making pinballs.

The rights were then split and sold to ensure that wms never made another pinball machine.

[hamish_nz]

p2000 didn't fail PINBALL failed

Williams saw the market dying and decided to focus on slot machines

I am sure if they made wizard block and playboy it would have only
delayed the inevitable

Williams is owned by shareholders who want a return on
there investment

[Pinprick]

Hey gents, have look at the DVD "TILT - The Battle To Save Pinball" if you haven't already. This deals with the issue in depth and in person. Still begs a lot of questions though! IMHO still an intriguing docco for pinheads.
Max 

[pinball god]

p2000 didn't fail PINBALL failed

Williams saw the market dying and decided to focus on slot machines

I am sure if they made wizard block and playboy it would have only
delayed the inevitable

Williams is owned by shareholders who want a return on
there investment

hamish I'm glad you stated this but I think you're a touch wrong. If your car is playing up and looks like it's a goner, do you try to sell it or at least try or is it straight to the scrap yard. I think I know your answer. I think wms weren't too sure on this fact and were too shit scared to be proven wrong and they knew stern wouldn't put in the funds to try their own. What do you think. Btw I am a pissed p2000 fan as I would have loved to have seen where it could have gone. I see p2000 as being at the stage of 80's pc games where 4 colour graphics was unreal. Imagine if it got to the stage of of gaming today

[hamish_nz]

Stern is struggling to survive and they are the only ones left.

with the world wide recession OP's are not buying new machines

[Docpinball]

You can definitely get pinball to thrive again, you just need to be progressive and not have a 2009 pinball look no better than a 1991 one.

The big problem with pin 2000 was the doubling of the labor cost.  You need a video game crew as well as a pinball design crew, this is why it wont be made in the future, however there are as Mark has pointed out two other designs that are already well on the way that could be resurrected without this cost.  WB far more that Playboy but both have a lot of work already done.

[pinball god]

You can definitely get pinball to thrive again, you just need to be progressive and not have a 2009 pinball look no better than a 1991 one.

The big problem with pin 2000 was the doubling of the labor cost.  You need a video game crew as well as a pinball design crew, this is why it wont be made in the future, however there are as Mark has pointed out two other designs that are already well on the way that could be resurrected without this cost.  WB far more that Playboy but both have a lot of work already done.

I hope this comes to light. I have my two cabinets ready and waiting for some new kits

[Pinmem]

Although Revenge from Mars was a sucess approx 7,000 machines sold a success in anyones books. Star Wars however did 5,000, that is still a success and there where a few contributing factors to why

Star wars did not get released and the same time as the movie and interest was not as high.

The increased price saw operators pull out.

In comparison Sega released South Park and sold only half of Williams Star Wars approx 2,200. So the question was Pinball was making a profit but how much of a profit was enough?

[Greg]

Mr Prick Nicastro didn't even offer up the business for sale as an ongoing, working manufacturer. Surely there would have been people interesting in having a crack before all the great minds left and the rust set in?

the "Prick' part may be correct Gav
but the  "didn't offer up the biz for sale" is incorrect, it was offered to one company only  and they said thanks but no thanks

[Finny]

I think that pinny 2k is still a very viable platform for any 3rd party game developer wishing to do small run kits as NuCore has solved some major problems.

There are many talented members with various skills who could achieve creating new games but the hardest challenge would unfortunately be overcoming pinball politics IMO...

Just look at guys who made their own machine! Beautiful... Early days pinny people!... not giving up on 2K yet...