Author Topic: LAH "Ripper" - kickback issues (F9 Fuse) & LHS Flipper  (Read 6069 times)

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Offline MartyJ

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LAH "Ripper" - kickback issues (F9 Fuse) & LHS Flipper
« on: October 31, 2008, 05:26:57 PM »
Hellooo,

Well my LAH prject has being coming along nicely - PF now 95%, new flippers, rubbers, globes and all is going great except - for the ripper coil.  The coil I got with the machine was broken (plunger etc).  I bought a new kickback assembly and installed it.  No good.  Nothing on diagnostics.  Hmm, well I put the other coil back in, same thing.  After hours of searching, it looks as if the F9 fuse keeps blowing on startup.  According to Marvin's guide this is the fuse for the kickback I don't know where to look now?

The second issue is with my left flipper.  Brand new everything - coil+kit.  The right hand one works great, but for some reason the left one is very slow to return on the way down.  I've had it apart back together probably 4 times and I still cant work it out.    !*!

Anyhelp for a tired Marty would be appreciated!

 ^.^
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 06:55:26 PM by MartyJ »

Offline humpalot

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You need to get the schematic for the game,  and locate what actually drives the coil.  Could be a short in either the CPU or PPB, check the transistors, pre driver transistors, diode and resistors in the circuit.

OK had a quick glance at the schematics, check Q1 on PPB and check Q13 and Q7 on the CPU.  These are the transistors that drive the coil.  Hope it helps.  LAH is a fun game to play.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 07:27:03 PM by humpalot »

Offline Strangeways

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Yep - I agree.. first you need a copy of the manual with schematics.

You could follow the wiring back to the PPB - I think it will be the transistor labeled Q13.

Schematic will prove that definitely. The coil should be a 23-800.
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Offline MartyJ

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Yep - I agree.. first you need a copy of the manual with schematics.

You could follow the wiring back to the PPB - I think it will be the transistor labeled Q13.

Schematic will prove that definitely. The coil should be a 23-800.

Thanks guys....This is now crossing into the slightly harder side of repairs!...
Can a dodgy transistor cause fuses to blow or should I be looking for an exposed wire etc...The fuse blows as soon as it powers up each and every time...The coil is definately correct.  Even with the coil unplugged (from under the PF) she still blows.
Would I be better to find new boards or take them to someone if I can't find the prob?...

BTW the flipper issue sorted.  It seems I may have fitted the spring to the coil stop around the wrong way.  A bit of fiddling and all good there...
BBTW the diode from DSE worked a treat on the leaf switch too!

Thanks again....almost there!!

Offline Strangeways

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Keep going mate - nearly there....

The fact the fuse blows straight away probably means the transistor is bad.. Schematics are the best bet - but you could have a look around to see if there is anything obvious.. Even a visual check of the PPB board could reveal a clue.
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Offline MartyJ

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I've removed the PPB board out.  I cannot see anything on the front that looks terrible...I have had a look on the back for dry solder joints but cant see any obvious.  Now I understand I need to check the Q1 transister...I have read from marvins guide that you set your DMM to diode, black on the metal bit and red to either outer legs.

Now I've only got a cheap-ass DMM from bunnings (projecta brand).  .The readings should be between .4 to .6?

Thanks for your support too!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 09:30:42 AM by MartyJ »

Offline Strangeways

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Yep - MM is set to diode and then check Q12, Q13 and Q14... I THINK Q13 is the transistor responsible !
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Offline MartyJ

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Re: LAH "Ripper" - kickback issues (F9 Fuse) & LHS Flipper
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2008, 09:47:24 AM »
OK, both boards are out.
On the CPU - I'm getting

The Q13 is reading 504/540 on the DMM (which I don't know whether is actually .504 etc)
The Q12 is reading 501/543
The Q11 is reading 504/546

On the PPB

The Q1 - strange readings all over the shop

I measured the Q1 with red on lug, black to legs...So I'll pop down buy some TIP36C and see how we go!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 09:56:45 AM by MartyJ »

Offline humpalot

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Re: LAH "Ripper" - kickback issues (F9 Fuse) & LHS Flipper
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2008, 10:24:17 AM »
If it was Melbourne cup I would of been on Q1 from the start.

Offline MartyJ

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Re: LAH "Ripper" - kickback issues (F9 Fuse) & LHS Flipper
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2008, 10:46:16 AM »
If it was Melbourne cup I would of been on Q1 from the start.

Lets just say I'm impressed!

I just bought a slightly better DMM along with some new TIP36c's (not cheap).

I will put the new one in and see how we go.

The bad news is I've lost my label I had on the wires for the coil in question.  How can I tell which is which (one is purple with yellow band & the other blue with black band).  The purple is thicker gauge..

Offline Strangeways

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Good Work boys...

I'm working off the LAH manula from IPDB - No schematics - So this should be verified by Mick - as he has schematics...

On page 32 of the manual - the "Ripper Kickback" has a White/Violet and a Violet/Yellow.. Violet is purple obviously... The thicker one is Purple Yellow..

The thicker wire is the power wire. This should go to the "unbanded" side of the diode on the coil. Check any other coil to confirm..

At this stage - wait for Mick to reply - He can tell you definitely from the schematic.. I would not take "my word on it "  %.%

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Offline humpalot

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OK the vio/yel goes on the banded side of the diode.  Straight from the schematics and confirmed on my machine as well.


Offline MartyJ

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OK the vio/yel goes on the banded side of the diode.  Straight from the schematics and confirmed on my machine as well.



OK....unplugged the coil from under the PF and switched on.  Same thing, blew the fuse and I tested the Q1 again...reading .00.
Is it time to start looking for a new PPB?

Offline Retropin

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Marty,

Basically - you have a short somewhere on this circuit. make sure that the diode is on the coil first of all. with coil removed - the feed wires arent twisted together are they?? ( i have to ask).

personnally, if it were a shorted transistor, id expect the coil to fire and hold, this then burns out the coil and blows the fuse.

mate - no need to go buying a new board, this will be bloody simple, but these things are only simple once youve found them.

look at the schematics for this coil, follow them through. somewhere along the line, you have a connection that shouldnt be there. trace the wires from the coil right back to the board connectors, any insulation that is worn?? particularly when the looms go round coil brackets, this can wear through the insulation and short 2 wires.
 Check the connector with your DMM, anything that has low resistance where it should be high?

 ive never got a reliable reading from marvins diode test on transistors, but its probably safe to assume that it isnt this seeing as youve replaced the TIP36 ( it was meant to be a TIP36 yes??).

try having the PF in the upright position also header box open and the lights off. keep an eye on these as you turn the game on - sometimes its best to do this with an extension lead that you plug in while looking at the machine. any blue sparks??? if so - THIS is where your short is.

Check your board for any solder splashes that may be there from previous working.

Somewhere, something is touching that shouldnt be, you just gotta find it!

Offline MartyJ

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Marty,

Basically - you have a short somewhere on this circuit. make sure that the diode is on the coil first of all. with coil removed - the feed wires arent twisted together are they?? ( i have to ask).

personnally, if it were a shorted transistor, id expect the coil to fire and hold, this then burns out the coil and blows the fuse.

mate - no need to go buying a new board, this will be bloody simple, but these things are only simple once youve found them.

look at the schematics for this coil, follow them through. somewhere along the line, you have a connection that shouldnt be there. trace the wires from the coil right back to the board connectors, any insulation that is worn?? particularly when the looms go round coil brackets, this can wear through the insulation and short 2 wires.
 Check the connector with your DMM, anything that has low resistance where it should be high?

 ive never got a reliable reading from marvins diode test on transistors, but its probably safe to assume that it isnt this seeing as youve replaced the TIP36 ( it was meant to be a TIP36 yes??).

try having the PF in the upright position also header box open and the lights off. keep an eye on these as you turn the game on - sometimes its best to do this with an extension lead that you plug in while looking at the machine. any blue sparks??? if so - THIS is where your short is.

Check your board for any solder splashes that may be there from previous working.

Somewhere, something is touching that shouldnt be, you just gotta find it!

OK, it looks as when I thought I unplugged the coil I had unplugged the wrong plug.  I had the coil wires around the wrong way.  I've changed this, put a new diode on coil.  I've put a new TIP36C back in again.  Before I start everything else you suggested, can this cause the same problem ?

Otherwise I will track the wires back.  I read somewhere (I could be wrong) that the power is piggy backed off other PF devices?  Is this correct?  And should I trace both wires back?

THanks heaps for your suggestions!