Author Topic: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E  (Read 4312 times)

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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2008, 08:24:01 PM »

DE's are prone to do this... It was so bad on my JP that the bottom speaker had its wires desoldered.

Did you check out Mark's LAH ?
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Offline MartyJ

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 08:29:06 PM »

DE's are prone to do this... It was so bad on my JP that the bottom speaker had its wires desoldered.

Did you check out Mark's LAH ?

No, I actually forgot...I had too much System 11 running though my head....

I have some components ordered to do the -12v on the power supply.  I doubt it will help but I'll cross it off the list.

The majority is coming from the r/h/s speaker...So another option may to be to find another speaker with better shielding

Marty Machine

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2008, 12:55:43 AM »
Hi Martyj - Martyw here  &&

It's probably no use shielding the hummy speaker if it's being driven by a hummy signal.

Quite possibly, the hum is coming from the main PSupply board, and you should probably make sure the caps in the main PSupply board are correct.

Depending on the type of buzz (i'd have to hear it) does your machine have a switchmode Psupply in it?
I'm assuming some newer machines do have these?

At worst case, it's simply poor design, and no doubt can be modified to cure the shortcuts the manufacturer made  *)*

I'm in Melb too, happy to assist if required, i seem to always be at markc's these days hahahahaha.


Oh yeh, good luck *NOT* buying something at markc's, everytime i go there i buy something hahahaha.
Supporting the cause .....

Marty.

Offline markc

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2008, 01:14:44 AM »
Martyj and marty

you 2 play nice

now who got the f14 ?

you will fidn teh buzz is also in ballys williams too , mostly transformer noise
there are a few way to fix this   even duckie can do it ....




Offline MartyJ

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2008, 10:01:11 AM »
Hi Martyj - Martyw here  &&

It's probably no use shielding the hummy speaker if it's being driven by a hummy signal.

Quite possibly, the hum is coming from the main PSupply board, and you should probably make sure the caps in the main PSupply board are correct.

Depending on the type of buzz (i'd have to hear it) does your machine have a switchmode Psupply in it?
I'm assuming some newer machines do have these?

At worst case, it's simply poor design, and no doubt can be modified to cure the shortcuts the manufacturer made  *)*

I'm in Melb too, happy to assist if required, i seem to always be at markc's these days hahahahaha.


Oh yeh, good luck *NOT* buying something at markc's, everytime i go there i buy something hahahaha.
Supporting the cause .....

Marty.

Hi Marty,

I suspect your right about the signal which is driving the speakers.  I have read post after post on google in relation to this.  (a) it is very common on D.E's - which everyone on here as also stated correctly.  I guess I need to remember that these machines were designed for arcades not homes. 

The noise is a humm when just sitting there in attract mode and I get some G.I interference as well.  I've replaced the main cap on the sound board, all backboard screws in and tight and I replaced the -12v cap on the sound board last night.  Still the same.

I have a D.E Simpsons sitting next to it, and it is much much quieter.  The Simpsons though looks like its had very little use in its life...

I recall reading a thread about AC leaking onto the -12vDC but I might be getting confused.  ::)

Martyj and marty

you 2 play nice

now who got the f14 ?

you will fidn teh buzz is also in ballys williams too , mostly transformer noise
there are a few way to fix this   even duckie can do it ....


You havn't sold the F14 (nooooooo)....I was really really hoping you would pop on a red cap and leave it under my xmas tree!

If there is a way to fix transformer noise I'll give it a go!

Offline MartyJ

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2008, 01:02:58 PM »
OK..Been down to Marks this morning...His NIB LAH is quieter than mine so I will keep on working for a solution!

There has seemed to of been a mixup with the Marty's and the F14?  Seems that the other one picked up the F14??!!   #.#

Oh well......

I have a set (or very close to) supposedly NOS playfield plastics too for the F14...

Anyway thanks again to Mark for his excellent service this morning and for turning on all the machines for the wifey.  Now she wants a Shrek (badly), CV, Rocky & Bullwinkle....... %$%

Offline Strangeways

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2008, 01:20:13 PM »
OK..Been down to Marks this morning...His NIB LAH is quieter than mine so I will keep on working for a solution!

There has seemed to of been a mixup with the Marty's and the F14?  Seems that the other one picked up the F14??!!   #.#

Oh well......

I have a set (or very close to) supposedly NOS playfield plastics too for the F14...

Anyway thanks again to Mark for his excellent service this morning and for turning on all the machines for the wifey.  Now she wants a Shrek (badly), CV, Rocky & Bullwinkle....... %$%

Hmmm ... CV

Great machine !


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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2008, 03:53:33 PM »
I popped into Marks around lunchtime, pity we didnt catch up to chat about your DE-hum problem.

As Mark mentioned to me, most machines are quietened be mounting the transformer on a rubber or silastic bedding so they dont hum the cabinet.
Since yours seems to be in the speakers, you'll need to improve on the poor electronic design, since replacing caps isn't helping as yet..  ^.^

Marty Machine

Offline MartyJ

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2008, 05:57:28 PM »
I popped into Marks around lunchtime, pity we didnt catch up to chat about your DE-hum problem.

As Mark mentioned to me, most machines are quietened be mounting the transformer on a rubber or silastic bedding so they dont hum the cabinet.
Since yours seems to be in the speakers, you'll need to improve on the poor electronic design, since replacing caps isn't helping as yet..  ^.^

Marty Machine


I tried Mark's method this arvo.  I put about 7mm of silicon around the centre mass and pretty much in a square where the transformer sits.  Didn't really help unfortunately.  There is some noise (if I put my ear under where it sits, but it doesn't seem to be a vibration type.  The G.I noise I will put up with as that is now accepted as norm.  The other humm (also noticable mostly from right speaker) I will still need to look at....

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2008, 06:39:08 PM »
For future ref, to avoid labourous pouring of silicon etc, just lift the transformer onto a car/kitchen sponge or an old pillow, this will immediately isolate cabinet humming....then, you can move onto the silicon part or rubber blocks etc.

Is the soundboard (or speaker) anyway close to the transformer getting induced hum into the wiring?

Other than that, you might need to get techy with a Cro, and 'look' at the audio signal throughout the audio amp to see if the hum is within the sound board, or coming out of somewhere else?
I'd still like to see the power rails on the soundboard with a Cro, i reckon you could slam an extra 10,000uf to 50,000uf on the soundboard filter cap and note any difference.

Another thing to note, most of the older power supplies (not sure about modern ones) only use 1/2 wave rectifiers (2 diodes) on most of the Power Rails which means the A.C ripple voltage is a lot more noticeable (hum-wise) than if you used a full rectifier (4 diodes) in the supplies.....don't know why they always did that.
saving money on diodes ?  !@#

It might also be some grounding humloop issues, at those high currents the varying lengths of ground wiring might also be the problem.
You might need to ensure that ALL ground wiring coming out the the main supply distribution are all EQUAL lengths to each card they go to....this means having some slack in the closer boards ground wiring to match the longer lengths to get to other cards.
This will help reduce stray currents that will riddle your rails with hum.

another manufacturuer oversight ???  !*!

Marty Machine.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 06:43:38 PM by Marty Machine »

Offline MartyJ

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2008, 06:42:49 PM »
For future ref, to avoid labourous pouring of silicon etc, just lift the transformer onto a car/kitchen sponge or an old pillow, this will immediately isolate cabinet humming.

Is the soundboard (or speaker) anyway close to the transformer getting induced hum into the wiring?

Other than that, you might need to get techy with a Cro, and 'look' at the audio signal throughout the audio amp to see if the hum is within the sound board, or coming out of somewhere else?
I'd still like to see the power rails on the soundboard with a Cro, i reckon you could slam an extra 10,000uf to 50,000uf on the soundboard filter cap and note any difference.

Another thing to note, most of the older power supplies (not sure about modern ones) only use 1/2 wave rectifiers (2 diodes) on most of the Power Rails which means the A.C ripple voltage is a lot more noticeable (hum-wise) than if you used a full rectifier (4 diodes) in the supplies.....don't know why they always did that.
saving money on diodes ?  !@#

Marty Machine.



There is a speaker on the bottom of the cab, quite close to the transformer.  This is a possibility.  I have not got any lead to put between them to shield...

The other option I was going to try tomorrow, is pop into Autobarn and see if I can get a set of 4", 4ohm (one way) speakers...or Jaycar....Its a cheap and easy swap.

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2008, 06:45:33 PM »
IF you can just lift the speaker out of the cabinet and maybe use temporary wires say 1 metre long to get it OUT of the cabinet, then monitor the humming.

Marty

Offline MartyJ

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2008, 01:00:32 PM »
IF you can just lift the speaker out of the cabinet and maybe use temporary wires say 1 metre long to get it OUT of the cabinet, then monitor the humming.

Marty


OK, gone a couple of steps forward this morning.  Pulled out speakers out of front display panel (very sad looking speakers).  Went down to Jaycar and had a look at what they stock.  There were some nice 4" speakers, but the cone would hit the grill, so no good.  They had some cheap n nasty speakers almost identical to the ones that were in there (4" 4ohm).  I guess cheap crap from 20yrs ago vs cheap crap now, now would probably be a bit better.  At $3.80 each it was worth a shot.  Put them in, a little better, but still humm.

So, keeping it simple I disconnected display speakers, tried again...Little better, but noise still there.  Disconnected cab speaker...Noise still there. Soo, this makes me think that the transformer is to blame.  Its on silicon at the moment, but maybe not enough.  I will try pillow and see if that helps.

Do transformers buzz on their own without vibration?

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2008, 01:30:55 PM »
Marty, looks like you're getting there.....

Yes, transformers do hum on their own, especially old larger ones.

The laminations can come loose over time, and if it's a metal/rattly hum then you need to get the tranny re-dipped in laquer to seal it.
Otherwise you just need to work on resting your tranny on some form of isolating bed.

The silicon is probably still a bit too firm, and therefore transferring the hum from Tranny to cabinet.
Also to note, you might wanna mount the tranny on 4 rubber standoff posts, this way you get the main bulk of the tranny off the cabinet, and there's only 4 points of contact via the posts, although they should be rubber anyway, and absorb hum too.
Placing a foam/pillow block under the tranny can help support it and dampen the hum around the posts too.

Other options are to perhaps mount the tranny on it's own small wooden base (to keep it secure) and then mount the wooden base on the foam/rubber standoffs.....even 'spring' standoffs are an option.

In an ideal world, you would actually replace the BIG tranny with several smaller ones, they hum less (being smaller)
this will also isolate your power rails and stop current drain on 1 supply from flickering (dimming) the other one(s). but that's another avenue....

MM.

Offline MartyJ

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Re: Sound buzz (noise) on D.E
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2008, 01:36:23 PM »
Thanks Marty.

The humm is more electrical (if that makes sense)....Damm that silicon is tuff stuff.  I cannot even move the transformer at the moment.  Its glued tight  ^.^