Author Topic: Bally -35 MPU - heat related freeze-ups  (Read 1368 times)

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Offline vinito

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Bally -35 MPU - heat related freeze-ups
« on: November 24, 2008, 06:11:22 PM »
OK, I guess since I already have a reply to my "introduce myself" post I'm a full-fledged member now, so it's down to business, () (thanks Mark)
Warning: This is cross-posted from RGP, but I just discovered this forum a few minutes ago so hopefully you'll forgive me.

I rebuilt a corroded Bally -35 MPU and it almost works. If it's cold, it will boot up properly with 7 LED flashes "in the game" and 6 flashes on the bench with 12V and 5V attached to TP2 and TP5 respectively. The problem is, whether it is in the game or on the bench, it freezes up shortly after boot up - like within 15 seconds or so (in the game it will play the sound and start attract mode for a few seconds, then freeze up, at which point you can hear a 60hz hum).
If I let it cool off, it will repeat the problem the same way. If I try to boot up immediately it will freeze up right away. If I let it cool slightly, i.e. between 15 seconds to a minute or so, it will partially boot but freeze up in mid-boot, the shorter cooling time, the sooner the freeze-up.

On the bench I've hunted the board for hot spots and found that C5 gets too hot to touch if I leave power applied for a bit, and nearby VR1 is slightly warm too, but not hot.

Reading through Clay's guide I can't find anything that points to what's happening here. Searching RGP I found a couple references to heat-related MPU stuff, but nothing similar enough to make a correlation. I've checked and reseated all socketed chips. Headers & connections might be suspect except that it happens identically on the bench too with power attached to test points as per Clay's guide. The test points aren't corroded or oxidized either.

There are a couple original chips with dark spots (oxidization) on the legs. This may or may not be the problem, but I'm leaning away from this being the likely cause because after re-seating a couple times it still behaves identically. Besides, I'm not sure why one of the chips might cause C5 to get so hot. Of course I don't know whether or not it's wrong for C5 to become hot - maybe that's normal for all I know.

Can anybody help to point me in a next direction? I don't mind replacing components even if I'd be re-replacing  components I already have in the corrosion rebuild process. Hell I'd redo the whole smash if it would work. Seems like if I had an idea why the thing would be locking up due to heat like it is, it might point to a more specific plan of attack.

In case it matters, I also reinforced various traces that may have been iffy, Especially the ground trace which was very flaky along the bottom edge. Looking over the board and my rebuild work under magnification, checking and re-checking again, it all looks solid even if it ain't exactly purdy ("not purdy" being due to corrosion damage &
repair, not the soldering work which is pretty clean).

Thanks for any help.
I feel more like I do now than I did when I first got here.

Offline Strangeways

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Re: Bally -35 MPU - heat related freeze-ups
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 07:07:03 PM »

Interesting...

what does you TP5 measure before and after the lock up ? You should see no difference.. = +5V..

Also, check under J4 - If the board was corroded, it will have issues under the connector.

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stuba

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Re: Bally -35 MPU - heat related freeze-ups
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2008, 12:10:53 PM »
not sure but happy to float some ideas:

heat expands things, you may have a joint/2 traces that cause a short when they expand but don't touch when they are cold. do a visual on all traces and 'new' work looking for stuff that it close together. this will help you rule out wiring/traces.

test 'easy' components with multi meter looking for shorts - resistors (ohm tests), diodes (diode test) and caps (cap test if you have it or continuity).

does it die at 'exactly' the same point after boot up? - could give you a clue if it fails when a certain component is activated.

replace all connectors.

if you have eliminated traces, connectors and the simpler components then start with the IC's. start where it gets hot and start replacing IC's one at a time until you find the culprit. (use sockets)

if at the end of this process, you still can't find it, then throw it away as its probably posessed!  :lol

the other thing you could do is have it bench tested....might get to the root of the problem faster..

all the best  %$%




Offline Strangeways

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Re: Bally -35 MPU - heat related freeze-ups
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2008, 12:15:32 PM »

I just had a thought - If it freezes in the SAME spot - maybe the ROMs are corrupt, causing the CPU to lock up.

C5 is polarized from memory.. Is it soldered the correct way around ?

6810 - Maybe RAM is causing the lock up..


Have you got another working board as a reference ?
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Offline Mr Pinbologist

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Re: Bally -35 MPU - heat related freeze-ups
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2008, 11:12:49 PM »
C5 is on the +5v rail and should NOT get hot! If the board locks up on the bench as well as in the machine, and C5 gets hot, that rules out the game's +5v regulator circuit. C5 may be shorting out and dragging the +5v rail down. i'd be replacing C5, and C4 as well for good measure (they are connected in parallel).

Hope this info is helpful... Cheers and best of luck!

Mitch
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 11:18:40 PM by mitch »

Offline Mr Pinbologist

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Re: Bally -35 MPU - heat related freeze-ups
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2008, 11:30:30 PM »
I wasn't sure just what kind of caps these boards used for C4 and C5 so i just dug out an old Bally 35 mpu for a look see. These are tag tantalum capacitors and are notorious for shorting out.. i have replaced hundreds of these caps over the years in all kinds of electronic equipment... so definitely replace them BOTH ( C4 and C5). Just use good quality electrolytic caps of the same value. they'll work fine.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 11:40:59 PM by mitch »

Offline vinito

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Re: Bally -35 MPU - heat related freeze-ups
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2008, 10:30:29 AM »
Thanks a lot Mitch. That's definitely the best lead I've had so far.
I'll replace those caps in the next few days (pretty busy 'til after the holiday) and report back.
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Offline Mr Pinbologist

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Re: Bally -35 MPU - heat related freeze-ups
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2008, 12:03:06 PM »
No worries, glad to be of assistance. Hope the info is helpful to you!