My second pin has arrived - Pro football

[Strangeways]

Ok quick update guys

I took the offending score reel out and advanced the wheel to zero and saw the contacts open. I then started the machine and came up with tilt..bleh so i hit the start relay to override the tilt and Ball 1 lit up yeeehhhhhaaaaaa!!!!!

So i hit the right flipper and the motor advances for as long as i press it (i tried short presses and long presses). not sure how i did the next bit but after a few motor turns i was able to pick up the ball with my fingers and fling it up the playfield.. IT WORKED!!!! i feel im getting really close now!!! Chimes arent working but i can see a wire or 2 not plugged in

So whats left (as far as i can see)

1. Work out why tilt light is still on. Someone mentioned that tilt is always on upon start up and a coin gets rid of it. Unfortunately my coin mech is incomplete so need to work another way of starting the game
2. Work out why the right flipper isnt kicking out the ball on start up
3. Scores not incrementing on any reel and doesnt advance to ball 2 when i drain the first ball

This is exciting stuff and im loving it!!!!! 

Exciting stuff when the ball is served for "the very first time" - What a thrill !

1. This is a temporary measure until we you decide if you want the game on Freeplay permanently, or if you wish to have the coin mech going.. Switch the game OFF, turn the CREDIT wheel to 20 games or so, turnhe game ON - hit the START button

2. Check the contacts on the flipper - I THINK there are two sets. Check the wires on the coil.

3. Related to point 2 - Sounds like the set of contacts where the ball drains needs cleaning or gapping - it is not detecting the ball.

GREAT STUFF !

[Retropin]

A way to overide the coin mech is to advance by hand the credit wheel to 37 or so and disconnect one side of the increment coil on this - the game will always have 37 credits in it - no need for a coin mech...just hit start button

[Extra Ball]

Question because I am curious........if nothing else is wrong, can the machine play/function/ score fine on the good reels, with one burnt score reel coil?

Theoretically - Yes. Just the 100's score reel would never advance and it would have to be set to "zero" or the score motor would continue to run forever !

cool, EMs are like living beasts they will allways try and work. SS machines just die for seemingly silly little reasons.

[Ford Fairlane]

Ok another update!

When i switch on the machine and press the start button the motor doesnt kick in so i have to manually hit the start relay so not sure why start button doesnt activate this "s" relay

So then i try and hit the right flipper to eject the ball still nothing. The something weird... When i hit a veri target (random stuff i know) with my finger and then press flipper it will eject the ball. When the ball is ejected, it seems that the eject coil stays on and the kicker stays in the forward position buzzing. To stop this i hit the veri target again and it stops buzzing (good cause i dont wanna burn the coil). Then i try and hit certain targets (like the 1 point footballs and i guess everything else) Not sure of the order but eventually after hitting pretty much everything on the playfield the 1 pointers will start to work. Seems like a sequence of events needs to  be achived before 1 pointers work. Even the rollover switches and lane switches work only on occasion.

Also I did notice that the inner most switch on motor pos 1c never closes (no matter how many times i manually revolve the motor). I dont think this is right? 

Anyway still having a play and i feel like im even closer than ever (thanks Derek) for your help on this. Any ideas or things to check (especially want to get the start relay / button to work so i dont have to slip the playfield up to start it?

Thanks Guys!!!

[Strangeways]

When you switch the game on and hit the start button, does the score motor run continuously ?

[dj10555]

Hi Rob,
Getting closer! I had another look at the schematic later on and have another couple of suggestions.

When you get a chance could you make a note of colour of the wires which run from the suspect 1C switch on the motor? The switches are identified by position /switch/ then wire colour. This might help locate it on the schematic and tell if it is related to these problems or not. I think the switch contacts are a bit worn and will need replacing but for the moment might be able to adjust the contacts.

Could you also try pressing the ball return switch on/off and watch what happens with the Q relay? The relay should follow the switch action and turn on/off but I suspect it was sticking on and not releasing properly. This relay controls whether the flipper or the ball shooter coil is activated by the right flipper button.

regards Derek

[Ford Fairlane]

When you switch the game on and hit the start button, does the score motor run continuously ?

No nothing happens at all  i then just hit the start relay and it clicks over ...

And Derek, i will have a look tomorrow to get the colour of the wires on the switch on 1c. Thanks again

[Strangeways]

According to the schematic - Switch 1C in the score motor is NORMALLY CLOSED from 0 - 15 Degrees - which is "mumbo jumbo" for you right now - But after the score motor has stopped running, 1C should be closed.. One wire will be a Blue/Black (from motor 4C and reset completed relay) , the other will be White/Black ( to Ball return control relay).

In english - looks like the 1C switch should be adjusted to be closed when the score motor is at rest - AFTER the game starts, and the score reels have all set to ZERO. The ball return switch should be closed for the coil to be pulled in on the Ball return control relay.

The score motor will advance to close switch 2C and the Ball Return Relay will be closed which fires the ball shooter coil...

I'd say you have found a problem, but not necessarily the solution - Yet !

[Strangeways]

I might add that I have the bottom board from my Project Pro Football - So I'm happy to check my score motor against yours..

If any one else has any suggestions - I can offer my machine as a reference..

[Ford Fairlane]

According to the schematic - Switch 1C in the score motor is NORMALLY CLOSED from 0 - 15 Degrees - which is "mumbo jumbo" for you right now - But after the score motor has stopped running, 1C should be closed.. One wire will be a Blue/Black (from motor 4C and reset completed relay) , the other will be White/Black ( to Ball return control relay).

In english - looks like the 1C switch should be adjusted to be closed when the score motor is at rest - AFTER the game starts, and the score reels have all set to ZERO. The ball return switch should be closed for the coil to be pulled in on the Ball return control relay.

The score motor will advance to close switch 2C and the Ball Return Relay will be closed which fires the ball shooter coil...

I'd say you have found a problem, but not necessarily the solution - Yet !

Yeah im sure i found a problem as that switch never closes no matter how many times i advance the motor myself. Whoever said EM's are a living beast were spot on, but I am enjoying the chase. the only problem is that i want to take Gulfstream offline so i can restore but the kids and wife wont let me without Pro Football working   . will keep updating for those who are interested. I think it might provide a laugh or 2 or even be nostalgic seeing the issues that me the newb is finding and how im tackling it.   Im sure everyone had the same struggles (at least im hoping)  

I would really appreciate some photos of various angles on your bottom board? If it not too much trouble.

Thanks again!!!

[Retropin]

Rob,

Em's can sometimes really screw your head! There is no question that is not worthy of an answer.
Sometimes, just typing up what youve found etc or talking it over with someone can bring the solution to your head.

Nino had many emails from me when i was fixing up the Wms harvey - it gave me someone to just mull it over with. it was good to be able to do this. sometimes you can get yourself in such a muddle with them that a clear thought from someone else gives you a new path to try out.

keep posting mate...is all going good!

[Strangeways]

According to the schematic - Switch 1C in the score motor is NORMALLY CLOSED from 0 - 15 Degrees - which is "mumbo jumbo" for you right now - But after the score motor has stopped running, 1C should be closed.. One wire will be a Blue/Black (from motor 4C and reset completed relay) , the other will be White/Black ( to Ball return control relay).

In english - looks like the 1C switch should be adjusted to be closed when the score motor is at rest - AFTER the game starts, and the score reels have all set to ZERO. The ball return switch should be closed for the coil to be pulled in on the Ball return control relay.

The score motor will advance to close switch 2C and the Ball Return Relay will be closed which fires the ball shooter coil...

I'd say you have found a problem, but not necessarily the solution - Yet !

Yeah im sure i found a problem as that switch never closes no matter how many times i advance the motor myself. Whoever said EM's are a living beast were spot on, but I am enjoying the chase. the only problem is that i want to take Gulfstream offline so i can restore but the kids and wife wont let me without Pro Football working   . will keep updating for those who are interested. I think it might provide a laugh or 2 or even be nostalgic seeing the issues that me the newb is finding and how im tackling it.   Im sure everyone had the same struggles (at least im hoping)  

I would really appreciate some photos of various angles on your bottom board? If it not too much trouble.

Thanks again!!!

No problem, Rob - It is in pieces, but the score motor is intact and I can check the switches for you tonight.

[Ford Fairlane]

I will fix this pin even if it has to kill me in the process... 

I think the problem is Vari target related... so here's how it goes..

1. Switch machine on at power outlet
2. Kick start it by hitting s relay
3. move the vari target so it clicks
4. That lets me fire the ball
5. Ball is fired and have to hit the vari taget again so the firing coil goes back to normal position and stops buzzing.
6. While ball is in play flick a vari-target with my finger and everything starts to score points (at least everything else works)
7. After a while no points are scored with any shot so i flick the vari target again
8. Start scoring points again.

I mean WTF?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Anyway i carefully bent the innermost switch on 1c which hasnt seemed to help in anyway.

The wire colours from that switch are purple and what looks like white with light blue stripes. arrrrrggghhhhhh its kiing me to be so close and yet so far

[jyebow]

Keep at it Rob, I haven't got a GTB machine with a Vari target , but ( only guessing ) would the vari target have to "rest" or "zero" for want of a better word, like a score reel , before a game would start properly ?
I'm only guessing as both my GTB's don't have vari targets.
I maybe way off the mark , but it sounds vari target related? 
Anyway keep up the good fight.
Steve.

[illawarra_steelers]

Bloody hell!

Might be time to set it on fire 

Seems real strange that the proplem is the actual vari target assembly. From memory there is only one set of contacts at the back of this unit? I take it you have inspected these? Both units?

Once you start the game manually if you say hit a target (rather than the vari target) does the game still work like you described above?