Author Topic: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread  (Read 5579 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ajlaird

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Greensborough, Melbourne
  • Go Ahead, Make My Day
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2010, 09:45:17 PM »
The answer is pretty simple in my opinion: don't buy a machine unless you have inspected it yourself.

Or have gotten someone you respect and is impartial to inspect it for you.

That way there are no surprises.

And as MartyJ said, there are plenty of people interstate who are both competent and willing to inspect machines.

As far as I am concerned anyone can sell a machine on here after they have been around for a while; a template might help with descrip-tions but in the end if you inspect the machine yourself there is no problem.

Offline Strangeways

  • Pinball Restoration is my passion
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • *****
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
  • ABN 68 283 634 461
    • Ride The Boney Beast
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2010, 10:21:06 PM »

Off the bat gents - Stop the bickering. Period. If you have PRIVATE issues, deal with them PRIVATELY. When the template has been submitted for member's approval, I will be removing all posts that are not relevant to the topic.

As Creech suggest -  !#%

Couple of pointers so far ;

Pinball sales will occur on eBay, Trading Post, Craigslist, PSPA, My Garage, your garage and his collection. Sales of Pinball machines are not restricted to dealers, there are heaps of private sales by people who are not dealers. eBay is not limited to dealers, most machines are sold by private owners. If a member (any member with more than 20 posts) wishes to sell his or her machine, we want to provide a universal platform to provide prospective buyers with a clear understanding of what they are buying. A NEWB can ask as many questions as he/she likes without feeling like thay are "hassling the seller". Seasoned collectors will know if it has a HOME ROM or not. Little things can make a difference and this will improve the experience of the buyer and seller. This will eliminate any possibility of mis communication, or "surprises" - by that I mean something like - "The bottom set of flippers has a flipper rebuild kit, but the top set does not".


What I'm putting up for consideration, is a basic checklist of items that a pinball machine will have completed at the time of the sale. It can be a "Home Use Only" pin, or a parts machine. But it will be clearly evident on the template.

  • Moderators will NOT BE moderating or mediating the sale of machines. We will have no involvement.
  • There will not be a "rating system" like eBay.
  • We are not trying to seperate the professional businesses from the backyarder

We aim to create a universally accepted template that will be manditory for all sales of pinball machines through Aussie Pinball. The end result will be that the seller and the buyer know EXACTLY what the expectations are.

Keep the ideas coming - and keep it ON TOPIC



Aussie Pinball - Proud to be Australia's Premier Pinball Forum

http://www.australianpinballrestorations.com.au/

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/

We carry the largest range of NEW Ramps in Australia

Offline goodolddays

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Riverstone NSW
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2010, 10:49:47 PM »
I think the selling template is a great idea.
I would add that the template should include "known faults"
I would also add lets keep it simple ie.. KISS

Also pleased to see the mods/admins are trying to rein in this thread as it has gotten out of control.
At the end of the day
a) this is a hobby for 99% of us and 99% of us are not professionals, nor do we pretend to be
b) buyer beware
c) plenty of advice here for any new (1st pin) buyer from all of us who are happy to help
d) .01% of us have bought 25+ pins in less than 12 months or ever will

I sure hope AP continues in the tradition it was intended .. ie.. enjoyment of the hobby of pinball .
I have seen to much mud slinging and whinging of late by a very select few that is spoiling the enjoyment of this forum for the majority.

My 2c

Cheers
Dave
I need more room ! and more $$$

Offline ddstoys

  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Geelong
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2010, 10:54:04 PM »
Anyone should be able to sell there machines just as been done in the past if you do want a perfect machine go to the professionals if you want to save a few dollars or get a specific machine take the gamble.

    I purchase a project as is with no explanations needed i assume it is non working and missing parts if the machine is beyond repair I simply shoot it and get on with life.

Offline goodolddays

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Riverstone NSW
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2010, 10:58:58 PM »
Anyone should be able to sell there machines just as been done in the past if you do want a perfect machine go to the professionals if you want to save a few dollars or get a specific machine take the gamble.

    I purchase a project as is with no explanations needed i assume it is non working and missing parts if the machine is beyond repair I simply shoot it and get on with life.

Totally agree Daniel .. also

"if the machine is beyond repair I simply shoot it and get on with life"

 %.% %.% %.% !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! %.% %.% %.% %.% %.% %.% !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! !!!  You totally cracked me up with that line.
I need more room ! and more $$$

Offline silverball

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2010, 11:42:15 PM »
No need for a template IMO, all details should be discussed between buyer and seller only.

Offline Strangeways

  • Pinball Restoration is my passion
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • *****
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
  • ABN 68 283 634 461
    • Ride The Boney Beast
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2010, 11:53:40 PM »

Just a reminder - and this is not directed at anyone ;

Stay on topic. I've asked twice, I won't ask again.
Aussie Pinball - Proud to be Australia's Premier Pinball Forum

http://www.australianpinballrestorations.com.au/

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/

We carry the largest range of NEW Ramps in Australia

Offline beaky

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne, Vic
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2010, 01:01:39 AM »
hey ddstoys  **&

and now to the topic.

Yes i support the idea of a template, but you may need 2 templates, 1 for working machines and 1 for project pins.
the project pin template may need "are all major/minor components complete " (major components meaning game Specific parts & minor being common parts used in all pins that are readily available)
Are all boards in the machine
if minor or major repairs are needed (i.e. does it just need a clean, rebulbing & re rubbering or does it need board faults or playfield repaires)

the things i have listed might be useless but i do suggest the 2 different templates for project & working pins

hope this helps
On site pinball repairs in MELBOURNE NTH SUBURBS  : Circuit board repairs and refurbishing Australia wide (via Aust post)

Offline johnwartjr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Columbus, Indiana USA
  • It's ALIVEEEEEE!
    • My Home Gameroom . com
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2010, 03:13:33 AM »
I'm a bit of an outsider in this aspect, I don't imagine I'll ever sell anyone here a pin, nor do I think I'll buy one from anyone here - the logistics and the distance pretty much make it impossible.

I don't want to upset anyone, and if my advice is not welcome, I've not got a problem if someone deletes the post.. but I have opinions on the subject, having done lots and lots of deals.

I don't understand why the forum needs a checklist, though. There are way too many variables here.

A flipper rebuild can be subjective. Did you install a rebuild kit? Did you file the plunger and the stop? Did you use the kit from this retailer, or that retailer? Some retailers have more complete kits than others, some have more accurate kits than others, etc.
Was the game re-ringed? The answer yes could mean 2 days ago, 3 months ago, you changed all the rings you can 'easily reach' etc.

Any of those questions are completely objective. There's no way to get a concrete answer.

At some point, a buyer has to take responsibility for their purchases. Do a little work. One of the problems we see over here in the states is what I call the 'walmart mentality' - meaning that people think they can return anything purchased anywhere anytime, instead of doing their work on the front end and verifying what they are buying fits their specific needs, the level of quality they desire, etc. And on the rare occasion when they end up buying something somewhere that won't let them return it, or they get buyers remorse, they raise a stink and draw attention to themselves and in some cases, expect the government or organizations to intervene :)

I think a post or thread about how to buy pins might be more effective. Suggestions on what a buyer might want to look at, questions they might want to ask, ask for references, etc.

If you can't view a pin yourself prior to buying, you should ask for photos of specific areas. If you aren't sure what those areas are, ask someone who owns the game.
If you can't view a pin yourself prior to buying, try to find a forum member that is trusted who lives nearby, and ask them to inspect.
A seller who is selling an item should provide plenty of photographs of their items for sale - flaws and all!

You wouldn't go down to the car lot on the corner, sign the papers and hand them the money without seeing and driving the car you are buying. You wouldn't go to the electronics store and buy a bigscreen tv without watching the demo unit, you wouldn't buy a house without seeing it and having an inspection.

Why would you buy an expensive pinball machine without doing some research first? Yet people seem to do it all the time.

Offline Pintoxicated

  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Table Top - Albury NSW
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2010, 08:04:29 AM »
Valid points John and you are right. 

Take your example of flipper kits - I dare say that the template go into a bit more detail and may ask something like whether the flippers have been -

Stripped, cleaned and recond'd  -  N
Brand new flipper kit installed (coil stop, plunger, coil sleeve, playfield bushings, flipper bats)  - Y   flipper kit from PSPA  (or these components split up into their own question)
New coils      Y/N

The idea of a template is to alert a potential buyer or give them a trigger to ask more questions about a particular part of the description as well as encourage the seller to describe things that he or she may have previously left out, especially to an inexperienced buyer who may not know what to ask.  I guess the idea is to make the deal as transparent as possible and at the end of the day 'caveat emptor'. 

The template idea is worth a shot, if it doesn't work then go back to how it was, if it does work then happy days.
Addicted to pins.

Offline Strangeways

  • Pinball Restoration is my passion
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • *****
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
  • ABN 68 283 634 461
    • Ride The Boney Beast
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2010, 09:53:55 AM »

Off Topic posts and quotes of the "off topic posts" have been removed to keep the thread on topic and prevent further bickering from either side. Private issues are exactly that - Deal with then "in private".

This is probably the first (and hopefully the only) thread that we have been forced to HEAVILY moderate.  !*!
Aussie Pinball - Proud to be Australia's Premier Pinball Forum

http://www.australianpinballrestorations.com.au/

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/

We carry the largest range of NEW Ramps in Australia

Offline Strangeways

  • Pinball Restoration is my passion
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+9)
  • *****
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Melbourne
  • ABN 68 283 634 461
    • Ride The Boney Beast
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2010, 12:19:32 PM »

After reading through comments in here, I believe that the template may create more Gray areas and may introduce issues that can be the result of the template / checklist, or be attributed to it.

After consulting the other Mods, we have come the conclusion that Private Sales should be conducted "in private", and not be judged by a Checklist or template.

We encourage Private and Dealer Sales on Aussie Pinball.
Aussie Pinball - Proud to be Australia's Premier Pinball Forum

http://www.australianpinballrestorations.com.au/

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/

We carry the largest range of NEW Ramps in Australia

Offline Creech

  • Forum Founder
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • *****
  • Forum Posts:
  • Adelaide
Re: Buyer's and Seller's Guide - Suggestion thread
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2010, 12:22:29 PM »
Further to what Nino said, please keep your private matters just that - private. We don't want to see your dirty laundry being aired on AP.

We are considering bringing in a rule to enforce it.