'The King' Start up problem/s

[mark jackson]

I've been restoring a 1959   4 player machine called 'The King' .... some background .... it's basically a copy of Gottlieb multi-players from this period (like "The Texan" "Sweet Sioux" or similar).

It had not been going for a long time ... the motor board was left unsecured in the machine, and as a result a few of the top switches on the motor board plus another relay were twisted and mangled from knocking on the underside of the playfield. I rebuilt these switches as I thought they should go (from looking at the twisted and broken switches).

I should also say that all the writing on the machine is in French, and there is no schematic available for this machine as far as I know. All relays are marked with a letter.

The Problem: When I start up via coin switch: The score motor just runs on and on ... when I manually work the big solenoid for the relay bank the motor comes to a stop, but now the coil in the ball trough pulls in and stays that way. This makes it hard to work anything out as I don't want to burn that coil out, so I then turn power off.
I should also say that I know I've got some problems with the player selection .... I've read that motor switch 1E is responsible for selecting the right player....Switch 1E was one of the switches that I had to 'straighten out' and try to guess where it's timing comes on and off.

The machine wants to go, but just has these few problems. As I've said before, the electrical side of things is not my strong suit so any suggestions about ironing out these problems is greatly appreciated.

[Strangeways]

Score reels resetting to zero ?

[mark jackson]

Yes, All score reels are at zero, and when I manually hit a few things on the playfield it scores on player4?? When I do the startup as described, the player4 score-reel resets to zero..(from memory)

[ddstoys]

Sound t me like your player unit is not resetting.  If this does not reset properly it will not for the coil for your reset bank.   As for the coil on the ball trough that is supposed to stay energized until game over that's what stops the ball from returning to the manual lifter.

    Best thing to do is check out the stepper rebuild thread in the 1 on 1 section and rebuild all the steppers this isbusually all the problems

[mark jackson]

...what's the 1 on 1 section?? Mark

[ddstoys]

Well you found the 1 on 1 section.   The main think to check is if the unit is stepping up and down freely by activating the coil manually.   Ifbits ok then check the alignment of the units wipers when it in the reset position.  One coil will step it forward one will either step it back or reset it straight back to the start.

   Let me know once it's stepping freely manually advance the stepper a few clicks then try starting the game and see if it resets if it doesn't pulse the reset coil the problem is further in

[mark jackson]

thanks,mate. I think the spring on the stepper (NOT the 0-9 unit) could have one more turn put on it, as it wants to reset but sometimes stops a few notches short of 're-set'. I set the tension before the game was ready to start, and didn't want to do it too hard, and make more pressure for the 'adding' coil........ I probably won't get a chance to do much more on this for a couple of weeks as my wife and I are going to Rainbow Bay for 2 weeks holiday. Thanks for your help. ... I look forward to what you have to say about the 0-9 unit on my post for 'Kings and Queens'. Cheers, Mark

[Retropin]

Rebuild the stepper Mark, chances are that its either dirt and grime that adds extra friction and prevents the spring from doing its full work and so it wont fully go to "reset"position.

On some games also. its common to have the centre nut act as a tension adjuster... Stoner used this method and it can be bloody irritating as its really easy to over tension. Once stepper is cleaned and free from grease and dirt just make sure you tension the nut whilst checking the steppers action to  full and reset position.
Putting more tension on the spring wont solve a problem it just delays it for a bit and youll be back later.... but hang on a minute... this is Kidamingo yes? Im teaching you to suck eggs!

If main solenoid still does not pull in then follow its earth path by digging through those wire looms and determine what relay activates it. I often have to do this with the woodrails and by time schematic arrives from PBR ive fixed the machine anyway.

Good luck mate..

Gav

[mark jackson]

Thanks Gav, I'm currently at Rainbow Bay until 13th Sept. I'll be sticking my head back in 'The king' then, and will re-examine the 0-9 unit and motor switches at that time ... the electrical side of things has never been my strong suit when it comes to pinnie restoration. Thanks for your help here and i'm sure I'll be asking further questions about this mother of a machine... the first 4 player I've ever done in 21 years of restoring pinballs!  ... (I think I've done maybe 25 gottlieb wedgeheads by now) Cheers, Mark

[mark jackson]

Hi everyone, Rainbow Bay was just a great place to spend a couple of weeks, but all holidays must come to an end sadly......back to 'The King' .... with stepper unit in the reset position, it still does the same thing: I have to manually work the reset relay bank, and when I do the coil for the ball trough pulls in and stays that way. It still stays pulled in when I manually hit a few targets and rollovers on the game. When working normally this coil should release when the first points are made on a new game. It doesn't release at all, and this makes further investigation difficult as I don't want to burn out the coil by leaving it pulled in for too long. Does anyone know the most likely cause of this coil staying pulled in?
....I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to multi-player electro-mechanicals...do these machines operate using only one ball? (I guess they do, but just have to ask)... Thanks, Mark

[ddstoys]

If it's the coil I'm thinking of shouldn't it stay energized until all 3 or 5 balls have been served?

[mark jackson]

Hi Daniel, How goes it? The coil in question is the one that's attached to the ball trough housing. On the single player machines it comes 'on' at game start, which allows all the balls to roll down the trough and then they can be fired up to the playfield. Normally, when the first point/s are added in a game, this coil then releases which brings the ball stopper piece in the ball trough back to its resting postion. This means that the ball/s, once drained will not be allowed to roll back down the trough to be used again in the same game. However, in a 4 player machine, the balls need to keep rolling down for the various players, so I'm not sure just what's supposed to happen here.

[ddstoys]

On m riviera by alben this coil energized letting tha one ball keep circulating through until each player had used all there balls.  Try scorig a point then draining the ball 3 to 5 times and hopefully that coil will de energize stopping any further balls from being served