Bally Gas Display replacement (prototype just for fun)

[63wizz]

Orange would have to be the first choice as any other color would not suit all machines.

Ian

[Homepin]

Would the color be orange (as an initial run) ?

Yes, orange - and believe it or not (Gav will know this) there are about 20 'shades' of orange so I am matching as closely as I can. I'll crunch the numbers and see if the project will be worthwhie.

I am trying for two common front boards, one with 6 and another with 7 displays - and two main boards that can be assembled for either 6 or 7 digits, one to suit Bally/Stern and the other to suit Zaccaria.

[Strangeways]

I hope it works out worthwhile, Mike - I would commit to a couple of full sets to support the venture 

[Pinballer]

Mike, can I please ask what program you use for designing your PCB's?

[Homepin]

Mike, can I please ask what program you use for designing your PCB's?

Sure, after actually buying a couple of VERY expensive programs and finding them WAAAAY too complex for most normal needs I use freepcb for almost everything these days.

I have all the addons and that allows the generation of picture files from the gerbers built right in so I can then import those pics into Corel Draw and invert them, print on tracing paper and make prototype boards - all within a couple of hors of dreaming up a project.

Actually I wouldn't bother with any other program these days as freepcb is just so good.

http://www.freepcb.com/

There is no autorouting BUT there is an online site where you can upload your files and it will route for you - personally I prefer to have control of that and so I manually route all my designs.

[Pinballer]

Thanks for the info Mike.

[Retropin]

Would the color be orange (as an initial run) ?

Yes, orange - and believe it or not (Gav will know this) there are about 20 'shades' of orange so I am matching as closely as I can. I'll crunch the numbers and see if the project will be worthwhie.

I am trying for two common front boards, one with 6 and another with 7 displays - and two main boards that can be assembled for either 6 or 7 digits, one to suit Bally/Stern and the other to suit Zaccaria.

The problem with using LEd "off" colours ( anything other than red, blue, green) is colour variation. depending on just who makes them, the colour will not be consistent. An orange LED from one manufacturer will not necessarily match that from another. Its a real problem with LED.. youll see it all the time in your shopping centres... fabricated acrylic letters that are a pale blue colour when lit ( meant to be white), or letters with a creamy look next to letters with a bluey haze. White LED is made with a Blue LED that has a phosphour coating.. this phosphour coating is very thin and therefore subject to variation.
Same applies to Orange and even if using just one manufacture you cannot 100% guarantee that an LED display made in Jan 2011 will exactly match an LED display made 6 months later. Many LED manufacturers do very large runs and when supplying LED to overseas customers will ensure that the batch sent is all from the same BIN. But a second batch may be subject to BIN variation.
Personally, id like to see the LED displays in LED red.. but thats just me.. i like the deep red plus it would negate any colour shift issues.
I dont quite understand why its acceptable to replace white globes with LED on a playfield to get deeper richer colours ( and in many cases using LED brings up a new set of issues with strobing etc), but when it comes to displays we have to match the neon orange.

I hope Mike can get a manufacturer that will guarantee BIN variation wont happen, otherwise the investment in this would be huge and Mike would be sitting on a lot of 7 segment LED numbers for quite some time.
OR.... Pinballers just accept that a shift to LED would result in a deeper red colour and see it as a progression that had to happen.
OR... get original displays made again... do this and ill certainly gas them with neon for you all.

Mike, id be interested to know what current draw is required to change all displays to LED and the efficiency ( if any) of using these over the original cold cathode type

[Homepin]

Gav, It is still a little unknown what the current draw would be exactly at this stage because I would want to confirm my figuring with actual measurements once the displays were made.

However, Using the smaller blue 7 seg LEDs in my prototype a 'worst case' situation with all segments illuminated results in a current of just under 300ma from the 5V rail. It is not practical to use the 180V for supply as it is too high a voltage to deal with and has very low current availability. So with a full set of five display assemblys, and assuming 7 display types you are looking at about 1.5 Amps draw........

Worst case actually applies in this case as all segments on all displays are illuminated during display test. This is why I have commented that there is no way the original 5 volt power supply could be expected to provide an extra 1.5 amps - I believe it is stuggling as it stands....

The add-on 5 volt supply I have made is very, very simple and inexpensive and can provide 5 volts regulated at up to 3 amps so there is a 100% overhead. It is also very easy to wire in as it connects directly across the 12 volt AC terminals of the power transformer.

I am designing the display boards so that a standard 2.1mm DC connector (the round type found on almost all modern electronics) daisy chains the 5V to all boards. The display boards would have two of these connectors on them and I can get leads made with moulded 2.1mm plugs on each end VERY cheaply (actually I already have these made for a Melbourne customer as part of a project I build for them) and the PCB mounting sockets are also cheap. This would make wiring the extra 5 volts dead easy - just plug in the leads and tidy the wiring into the existing loom.

No strain on the already taxed 5 volt supply and plenty of current available to support the new displays. The aftermarket boards currently sold are very good but make no allowance for the 5 volt supply. This is a big mistake IMO.