Buying Pinball Machines from the US

[solar value]

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping that this post will serve both as an introduction (as I haven't posted before) and also as the beginning of a new topic, so if you don't want to know who I am maybe skip down to the next paragraph.  I have been quietly reading this forum since I became interested in pinball machines again a couple of months ago.  I grew up playing pinballs in the late 1980's and early 1990's (Pinbot, Whirlwind, Funhouse) and I guess became a little obsessed with them.  To the point where I even saved up enough money to buy my own beaten-up (but working) Firepower pinball.  Being a kid a the time, I knew nothing about pinball restoration and, as there was no internet back then, there was no way to get any information about the subject.  Indeed, it never would have occurred to me that such a thing as pinball restoration existed.  So, anyways, I sanded back the cabinet as best I could and painted it black to make it look respectable but something went wrong with it shortly afterwards and no one seemed to be able to fix it.  I ended up selling it to the local amusement shop for a lot less than I paid for it.  The upshot of this story is that this experience put me off pinballs for twenty years or so until late last year when I moved to a new neighbourhood and discovered that there was a Getaway pinball in the pizza shop at the end of the street.  I occasionally head down there after dinner with my 9-year-old daughter for an ice cream from the mixed-business next door to the pizza shop and couple of games of Getaway.

OK, so my reason for breaking my silence and posting on this forum is to get some advice and learn about the experiences of people who have bought machines from the US.  It seems to me that, with our dollar so strong at the moment, it would make sense to look to the US for some of the games that are hard to get here.  I know that there are larger operators who are currently doing this already but I'm wondering what people's experiences are of buying machines privately off US ebay or the Mr Pinball classifieds for example.  What shipping companies do people use? How do they organise it?  What are the pitfalls?  Is it worth buying a machine that you can't see in person?  These are the kind of things I'm wondering about...any thoughts?

[Strangeways]

  and  to Aussie Pinball !

20 years is a LONG TIME.. Anyway, the important thing is you are back in the game.

Yes, games are cheaper in the USA. But once you add shipping costs, fees, GST and every other expense that they make up, it ends up be far lesser of a saving unless you buy a container. Games such as Firepower do change hands, and there are lot of games still hidden in sheds and collections. Right time, right place. So really, it is which one is the lesser evil - Risks and costs of importing VS patiently waiting for one to become available ?

If it were only one game - I'd wait until you can actually SEE the machine in person.

[Pintoxicated]

and  to Aussie Pinball !

20 years is a LONG TIME.. Anyway, the important thing is you are back in the game.

Yes, games are cheaper in the USA. But once you add shipping costs, fees, GST and every other expense that they make up, it ends up be far lesser of a saving unless you buy a container. Games such as Firepower do change hands, and there are lot of games still hidden in sheds and collections. Right time, right place. So really, it is which one is the lesser evil - Risks and costs of importing VS patiently waiting for one to become available ?

If it were only one game - I'd wait until you can actually SEE the machine in person.

+1 to this.  Unless it is your all time greatest wish pin that you can't find here in Oz after a year or two of searching, I don't think I would do it again.  If you have a good look through the forum you will probably find a fair bit of info about importing machines yourself, it is a regular question that gets asked.  Realistically, you probably need to add anywhere from $800 plus to the cost of the machine and then just hope you haven't been dudded when the machine arrives.  Everytime someone looks at it or touches it they whack on another fee. 

Some examples of costs - packing and palletising - you should try to get a heat treated pallet in the hope of sneaking through customs without it being fumigated, shipping, wharf handling fees, GST if the machine is cost over $1000AUD with receipt to prove sale price, wharf handling fees, customs broker fees, quarantine inspection, fumigation and good chance of some more wharf handling fees.  These are just some off the top of my head.

There are alot of machines coming into the country and chances are there will be a machine arrive that is on your wish list.  I mean no offence by this but it would be a big call to buy a machine from overseas as your first machine just getting started again in the hobby.

Hope this helps a tad.

Oh, hello and welcome to AP as well.

[Retropin]

and  to Aussie Pinball !

20 years is a LONG TIME.. Anyway, the important thing is you are back in the game.

Yes, games are cheaper in the USA. But once you add shipping costs, fees, GST and every other expense that they make up, it ends up be far lesser of a saving unless you buy a container. Games such as Firepower do change hands, and there are lot of games still hidden in sheds and collections. Right time, right place. So really, it is which one is the lesser evil - Risks and costs of importing VS patiently waiting for one to become available ?

If it were only one game - I'd wait until you can actually SEE the machine in person.

+1 to this.  Unless it is your all time greatest wish pin that you can't find here in Oz after a year or two of searching, I don't think I would do it again.  If you have a good look through the forum you will probably find a fair bit of info about importing machines yourself, it is a regular question that gets asked.  Realistically, you probably need to add anywhere from $800 plus to the cost of the machine and then just hope you haven't been dudded when the machine arrives.  Everytime someone looks at it or touches it they whack on another fee. 

Some examples of costs - packing and palletising - you should try to get a heat treated pallet in the hope of sneaking through customs without it being fumigated, shipping, wharf handling fees, GST if the machine is cost over $1000AUD with receipt to prove sale price, wharf handling fees, customs broker fees, quarantine inspection, fumigation and good chance of some more wharf handling fees.  These are just some off the top of my head.

There are alot of machines coming into the country and chances are there will be a machine arrive that is on your wish list.  I mean no offence by this but it would be a big call to buy a machine from overseas as your first machine just getting started again in the hobby.

Hope this helps a tad.

Oh, hello and welcome to AP as well.

You forgot some wharf fees... oh and dont forget the wharf fees that wharf fees attract.

If you are going to do it.. then employ a shipping broker.. they will handle it all for you, - ask around as some are better than others.
try and import yourself via sea freight and you do not know the procedure... every little paper delay will attract more fees and trust me - you will NOT have the right paperwork even if they tell you that you do on the phone. Its a closed shop business that is designed to keep it all in house.. they dont take kindly to outsiders bringing stuff in.. no unions anymore... just procedure that you are not privvy to.

Having said all that... welcome to the forum!!!!!

[goodolddays]

Gday and Welcome .

Mark C (Child Amusements) has just brought in a container (there is a thread on here with a list of games) and I think he has another one coming soon . Lots of guys here give him a good wrap .
There is also Tony Turner in Brisbane (The Pinball Shed) who has been importing containers recently.

Good luck with buying a machine .

If you are in Sydney, PM me as I have a couple of games I need to move on, but they are 1970's which may be too old for your tastes.

[ajlaird]

Welcome aboard.

I have to concur with what was said by everyone else - probably not worth bringing a pin in from overseas unless you really can't get it in Australia.

If you want to do it right you bring a whole container in full of dirt cheap pins, or else fly over, hand pick the machines and add them up until you have container-full.

[wonder]

Yes agree, first pinball you should try and get from someone over he, that way you can go and have a look and play.A least that way you no what to expect.
As your confident rises, after you purchase a few more, as it wont stop at one machine for to long you may start at looking to import a machine

There nothing wrong with importing ,just got to do your homework.Picking up my playboy tomorrow which cost me $500us to buy and $250au to put into sea container and $88au in associated costs.Best thing is she does all my paperwork thank god. Freight cost in USA can cost a lot but was lucky as mine was around the corner from depo and was delivered there for free.Got pictures of the machine but you never no until you pick it up as to what to expect.Using a car importer to bring mine in.Have recently been scammed by a arcade company over their, thats why you must do your homework before you commit to anything.

Good luck and welcome.

Craig

[TSPP]

Yes agree, first pinball you should try and get from someone over he, that way you can go and have a look and play.A least that way you no what to expect.
As your confident rises, after you purchase a few more, as it wont stop at one machine for to long you may start at looking to import a machine

There nothing wrong with importing ,just got to do your homework.Picking up my playboy tomorrow which cost me $500us to buy and $250au to put into sea container and $88au in associated costs.Best thing is she does all my paperwork thank god. Freight cost in USA can cost a lot but was lucky as mine was around the corner from depo and was delivered there for free.Got pictures of the machine but you never no until you pick it up as to what to expect.Using a car importer to bring mine in.Have recently been scammed by a arcade company over their, thats why you must do your homework before you commit to anything.

Good luck and welcome.

Craig

Interesting that this is exactly what I have. I made a contact with someone who imports cars and parts and I just tag along with them. I don't pay fumigation, import costs etc. One flat fee.

What I would like to know as well that no one has answered for the op is about eBay or mr. Pinball classified. I know eBay can be relatively ok what with pay pal insurance but what about mr.pinball classified?

Anyone have experience or feedback for the op?

[Retropin]

Few scammers on Mr Pinball.. be careful.

try this.... post a wanted ad for a rare machine and then see how many people in Nigeria etc email you to tell you thay have exactly what you are looking for.  Its happened to me and i ended up not renewing the ad.

Seriously though.. i know people who have been burnt by a COUPLE of sellers on Mr Pinball... tread with caution

[Caveoftreasures]

If u employ a Shipping Broker or Freight Fowarding Agent, they usually try to rip u off blind by doubling or trippling the fees. This can add a minimum of $500 to $1000.
Freight Forwarders are out to make as much money as they can. You sign all your rights away when u employ one and they have u by the balls. They can add any amount of money they want, and if u dont pay it, you dont get your property. Just read their contracts and u will see they have a open cheque book.

I have never found one I could trust. My brother was in freight forwarding for many years and told me not to use one but to do all the paperwork myself, and get my stuff cleared by my own hand. He was too lazy to give me any info, so I went to the local Customs and Quarrantine Dept and asked lots of questions.

Your local government dept - Customs House, and Aust Quarrantine, are extremely helpful and will direct you to their helpful websites which have many great printouts which spell everything out, incl which forms u need to fill in etc. I was amazed at just how helpful the govt people were, and they didnt mind spending decent time with me explaining everything.

Rule No 1 - Dont purchase anything, before doing all the above legwork.
Rule No 2 - Make sure the overseas seller accepts the various requirements u will have/ask for as part of the sale, before paying, and get an agreement as part of the sale. example - that he will use a heat treated plastic pallet. that he will provide all the relevant declarations Aust Customs/Aust Quarrantine will require and so on.
If u dont have exactly what is required before the item is sent, u will never get it cleared or may have to pay huge fees.

JUST BUY FROM AUSTRALIA. If its only one machine. Less headaches. 

[Strangeways]

Case in point ;

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Fire-Power-Pinball-Machine-/170606532920?pt=AU_ArcadeMachines&hash=item27b8f11938

 

[solar value]

Wow! This forum is great isn't it? 10 replies in only one day! Thanks everyone for your help. 

I failed to mention that I have already bought one machine locally so this wouldn't be my first purchase but, yes, I admit that I am still very new to this.  Seems like the overwhelming consensus is to be patient and wait for a machine to come up locally and I'll certainly be taking this advice.  Rest assured, I'm a very careful person and certainly wouldn't be rushing out and buying anything without doing all the necessary preparation, checks, etc. which is I guess why are started this topic, so I could start learning more about the process which I might do one day further down the track.

However, judging from your replies and also from searching back through past threads on this topic it seems that getting machines from overseas is sometimes justified. Bally Fathom was one machine, for example, that people seemed to agree was worthy of going to the extra effort for as they are difficult to find here.

Also, from the replies it seems there might be a middle-ground between buying and importing single machines yourself and buying a machine from a container a dealer has brought in after it's already in the country.  A couple of people mentioned that they have used car importers to bring machines in, paying only a flat fee for the space in their container and in previous threads people have said that they have bought machines in the US and then sent them within the US to a container being shipped to Australia by someone like Mark C.  I'm guessing both these options would be considerably easier and cheaper.  Can we hear more from people who have done this and how it was organised?

Interesting that this is exactly what I have. I made a contact with someone who imports cars and parts and I just tag along with them. I don't pay fumigation, import costs etc. One flat fee.

TSPP, would this contact be happy for other people to tag along with them? Or do they consider it a hassle and are doing a special favour for you?

It seems to me that it's not just the fact that these machines are cheaper over there (and right now they are much cheaper because of the parity of our dollar) but also that there is a wider range and in some cases better quality.  I think this is worth exploring more because ultimately it's better for everyone (in Australia at least) if more individuals bring machines in because then these hand-picked machines begin to circulate in collections here. I'm sure with all the knowledge and experience on this site people could even cooperate to bring a container load of machines in together, an "Aussie Pinball" container as it were.

[Strangeways]

Personally, I've never brought in machines from the USA. I have brought in a machine in a single shipment from Europe (Fathom), and it was a hell of a lot cheaper than paying $5000 that dealers wanted. There were hardly any Fathoms in Australia when I bought mine. The production run for Firepower was massive, so there are plenty of them in Australia. The last place I'd be looking for a Firepower would be overseas. The risks outweigh the benefits.

I've never heard of a "joint container" that has been a success.  Questions that stump this arrangement ;

Who pays the commercial invoice ?
Who flys over to inspect the machines ?
What Port do they get shipped to ?
Who gets what machine ?
What happens with the one or two games that gets damaged ?
Will everyone pay up-front ?

As a collector and hobbyist, I've gone through this process (on my own), and having to update partners with the twists and turns of importation would be a nightmare. You would have to have some sort of contractual agreement to cover everyone's collective butt.

Finding someone's container space, such as importers and dealers is the best bet for one machine.

[Caveoftreasures]

I have said recently that the Aussie Pinball market is so flooded, we shld all be building Noah's Arks. Buying local now makes alot of sense.

There are soooo many people bringing in containers, and sooooo many people are sitting on sooooo much stock, quietly behind the scenes, these stocked up sellers are doing CASH DEALS like u have never seen in the Aussie market ever before. I think alot of sellers are putting on brave faces, but they are mostly screaming out for people to walk in with CASH. The competition is fierce with many many more machines available than buyers available. HUGE BUYERS MARKET.

I say, turn up to a seller, with cash in hand, right then and there, and grab yourself a bargain or 3. 

[MartyJ]

I have said recently that the Aussie Pinball market is so flooded, we shld all be building Noah's Arks. Buying local now makes alot of sense.

There are soooo many people bringing in containers, and sooooo many people are sitting on sooooo much stock, quietly behind the scenes, these stocked up sellers are doing CASH DEALS like u have never seen in the Aussie market ever before. I think alot of sellers are putting on brave faces, but they are mostly screaming out for people to walk in with CASH. The competition is fierce with many many more machines available than buyers available. HUGE BUYERS MARKET.

I say, turn up to a seller, with cash in hand, right then and there, and grab yourself a bargain or 3. 

I agree with Brett's post here.  Definitely a lot of commercial dealers competing locally - certainly in Melbourne.  Gone are the days where you can stick a $6999 price on a pin and happily sit on it until a wood-duck waddles in and pays top dollar.  Cash talks and I think its the time to buy if you're looking for some keepers.

If you are looking for a pin as-is and restore / clean it yourself make sure to pay a fair price. DONT rely on ebay as a guide.  If in doubt about the price as is - post the game, pics and get some honest opinions here.  If you are looking for one done up, make sure to go over it carefully and ASK lots of questions as to what was done 'or just checked'.  Again - if looking for one done up, make sure to shop around as the quality of work definitely varies from pin to pin, place to place.

It is sometimes cost effective to purchase a pin 'as is', get it working and once you decide its a keeper, then save to have it restored professionally.