It doesnt really affect you guys but...

[Retropin]

Woke up to the news that croydon is on fire due to riots...... theyve burnt my old home down... very very sad

[goodolddays]

Sorry to hear that Gav . What the hell is going on over there ?

[Strangeways]

Front page news on all the local media sites, yet there's no read reason as to why this is happening other than a youth was shot by police (not much detail on that either). Don't know why all this senseless violence is occurring as a result.

Sorry to hear you lost your old pad mate.

[Homepin]

They are still ripping through the place regardless of how many cops are present. Time to bring in the army with rubber bullets methinks!

Proves when the shit hits the fan the cops CANNOT protect you or your posessions......lucky I live in the sticks

[MartyJ]

They are still ripping through the place regardless of how many cops are present. Time to bring in the army with rubber bullets methinks!

Proves when the shit hits the fan the cops CANNOT protect you or your posessions......lucky I live in the sticks

Bit hard when you're outnumbered 50 to 1...

Also one side has to follow the law, the otherside can do what ever the hell they like.

Keep in mind that for every arrest, that's a crew of two coppers of the streets for at least a couple of hours whilst paperwork is getting done, interviews etc..

[Homepin]

They are still ripping through the place regardless of how many cops are present. Time to bring in the army with rubber bullets methinks!

Proves when the shit hits the fan the cops CANNOT protect you or your posessions......lucky I live in the sticks

Bit hard when you're outnumbered 50 to 1...

Also one side has to follow the law, the otherside can do what ever the hell they like.

Keep in mind that for every arrest, that's a crew of two coppers of the streets for at least a couple of hours whilst paperwork is getting done, interviews etc..

I understand - what I am saying is that when push comes to shove YOUR life is in danger so realistically you should take steps to ensure that YOU are safe under riot situations - IE.....how would you protect yourself when the state cannot?

[MartyJ]

Its not a pleasant situation at all.  For a State to bring in the Army against its own people is a very big step.  I don't even know whether the law (as it stands in 'peace time') allows for it.  Basically the offenders need to be arrested, processed and brought before the court.  This is not something the Army can do against civilians.

Basically Australian law is loosely based on English Law, hence in Victoria section 462a of the Crimes Act covers your question:

Use of force to prevent the commission of an indictable offence

462A. Use of force to prevent the commission of an indictable offence

A person may use such force not disproportionate to the objective as he
believes on reasonable grounds to be necessary to prevent the commission,
continuance or completion of an indictable offence or to effect or assist in
effecting the lawful arrest of a person committing or suspected of committing
any offence.

Source :http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s462a.html

You'll note a couple of things.  There is NO reference to a Police Officer in the above.  Its ANY PERSON.
Secondly is that the force is not disproportionate to the objective.

Without being in the UK at the moment, its hard to comment however from the media footage the vast majority of person(s) rioting appear to be teenagers to mid 20's.  The parents of the teens need to drag their children home and lock them in until things settle down.

[ddstoys]

All this damage and only one person shot.    I say start Shooting more of the wankers.  Poor police get attacked then get then get hammered if they defend themselves.   Give em more bullets and more freedom to use them will
Atleast thin the numbers of wanker  and hopefully deter more from becoming trouble makers

[pinnies4me]

You'll note a couple of things.  There is NO reference to a Police Officer in the above.  Its ANY PERSON.
Secondly is that the force is not disproportionate to the objective.

Thirdly - to prevent the commission of an indictable offense

Can't be a low level sort of thing, don't want members thinking they can go around arresting people for dropping litter!!

Not sure if that applies to any power granted to an armed force as it's just the Victorian Crimes Act, and armed forces are under Federal jurisdiction.

No doubt the police are going to need some better equipped back up pretty soon if this keeps going, it's hard to understand how this has spread to different areas, seemingly unrelated.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Sucks to see your old homeground being destroyed

[MartyJ]

You'll note a couple of things.  There is NO reference to a Police Officer in the above.  Its ANY PERSON.
Secondly is that the force is not disproportionate to the objective.

Thirdly - to prevent the commission of an indictable offense

Can't be a low level sort of thing, don't want members thinking they can go around arresting people for dropping litter!!

Not sure if that applies to any power granted to an armed force as it's just the Victorian Crimes Act, and armed forces are under Federal jurisdiction.

No doubt the police are going to need some better equipped back up pretty soon if this keeps going, it's hard to understand how this has spread to different areas, seemingly unrelated.

Yes - the use of force is to prevent the commission of an indictable offence or effect or assist in
effecting the lawful arrest of a person committing or suspected of committing any offence.
 - Straight out of the Victorian Crimes Act.  Interesting read if you have a few weeks of doing nothing!!

Obviously is different legislation for different states, but I had a quick read through the Commonwealth Crimes Act 1914 and could not find similar legislation under Commonwealth Law.  This are sections for use of force when arresting or executing warrants (Federal Police), but not 'any person' type of legislation.  Its an interesting point about bringing the Army in to control riots and how the law works with it.  I have no knowledge of it happening in my lifetime (within Australia).  I guess if necessary they could rush something through Parliament over in the UK.

The UK Police are exceptionally well equipped and have vast experience in dealing with massive incidents (ie bombings etc).  Given the vast spread of all the incidents, I guess protection of life is the number 1 priority (as it should be), restoring public order as #2 and finally protection of property (public and private) #3.  I'm tipping the boys and girls in blue over there will be pulling some seriously long hours for the next couple of days.

[Retropin]

The shooting was in NORTH London... its miles away from Croydon which is in SURREY.

My friend still lives by the High st... he said that they are basically going from shop to shop smashing the windows and looting everything before setting it on fire.
This has nothing to do with a shooting... its young thugs taking what they can because they cant afford to buy. Croydon is a MASSIVE shopping town.. it is absolutely huge.... and there is plenty to take.
Odd thing is that the army barracks are about a mile away from REEVES Cnr which was the first to get burnt to the ground... this was a lovely old building that was still privately owned by the REEVES family ( think REEVES art supplies). I still talk to many friends back home and the looters are txting the next massing... the police are behind the 8 ball all the way.

Seems eveeryone who is not looting wants the army in.. rubber bullets the lot.

friggin makes me so angry to see my home town raized to the ground for nothing but greed

[pinmadd]

Sorry to hear mate, Some crazy shit going on in the world at the moment 

[pinsanity]

Most States have enacted the Public Safety Preservation Act (or a derivation of) which allows for the relevant State Government to declare a state of emergency, pass temporary regulations, make temporary appointments of office and can in certain circumstances temporarily suspend specific inalienable rights granted to the citizenry through legal precedent. To act as a safeguard against an abuse of Govt power, these regulations for the upholding of public safety and order, have what is known as a "sunset clause" attached to them, which in effect makes them invalid after a certain specified date.

Since we are focusing on Victoria, here is the PSPA for Vic
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/pspa1958298/

However, the State Govt would need to request Federal Govt cooperation and assistance in terms of regulating a military force to control a population or the granting of a temporary power to effect the arrest of person(s) by a nation's military force. Once that request is made the Federal Govt is obliged under s119 of the Constitution to "protect every State against domestic violence, on the application of the Executive Government of the State."

Federal power to regulate the military internally to maintain the laws of the Commonwealth is found under s51 of the Constitution.

As an aside, the Federal Constitution specifically prohibits the raising of any military force by a State under s114.

[Retropin]

My mate is a postman... he found all sorts on his round today.. many of it though was still a no go zone.
Playstations and X boxes thrown in peoples gardens... goods everywhere still in packaging. Several people were dragged from their cars beaten to shit and then had their cars set on fire... one non fatal shooting by a rioter.

The use of rubber bullets has been sanctioned and the army on stand by