Beware?

[wizo]

On the 240.com.au site it says beware of machines from Europe, what's the story there? 

[Homepin]

I imagine you mean the following statement from their website:


**VERY IMPORTANT NOTICE**

240 AMUSEMENTS WOULD LIKE TO ISSUE THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT TO ALL POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS

1. *** BEWARE *** 240 Amusements does not purchase pinball machines from Europe. Ask your supplier where your future machine purchase is coming from. There is a reason why the machines coming from Europe are cheaper - let your own eyes tell you why. We have only ever sold 2 pinball machines originating from Europe in the history of our company - they were cheap trade ins and were sold as such.

1.   It is very important that everyone is aware of the pitfalls of buying "as is" machines. There is a reason why "as is" machines are sold cheaper than reconditioned machines. With an "as is" machine, you do not receive a warranty, nor will you receive any guarantee that integral parts of the machine will actually work.

2.   240 Amusements does not sell "as is" machines, and we DO NOT support customers, who have purchased "as is" machines from other suppliers. Do not fall into the trap of purchasing an "as is" machine, only to find that the seller will not answer your call for technical help, or will not help you if a major problem occurs with the machine.

3.   240 Amusements offers LIFETIME telephone support, to all machines that we sell. This means we will be there to help you AS LONG AS YOU OWN THE MACHINE.

4. BE AWARE that buying machines from backyarders, or "as is" machines that do not comply with the electrical standards of Australia is VERY VERY DANGEROUS.
ALL OF OUR MACHINES SOLD CONFORM WITH AUSTRALIAN ELECTRICAL DEVICE STANDARDS.

240 AMUSEMENTS ARE ACCREDITED TESTERS AND APPROVERS OF ELECTRICAL DEVICES.




I can see a couple of issues with EU electrical devices & pinball machines. Some main CPU boards are not easily configured for English & power leads will need to be changed. Apart from that there seems to be an implication that machines from Europe have been flogged and are of in a poorer state to pins from elsewhere - I think that is probably about the same scare tactics as point 4 of the statement above.

However - in ALL cases, the 220/240V AC wiring of ANY electrical machine should ONLY be changed/checked/replaced by a person suitably qualified to do so. There are all sorts of legal and safety implications these days that are getting worse by the second and tampering with the mains wiring 'could' end you up in serious trouble or dead!

Imagine - you have just changed the mains lead on your new import pin and for unknown reasons (not even your own doing) the left leg is grounded as it should be but the right leg is connected to trhe mains active. Little Johnny, the neighbours kid, comes over to play your new game and POW - he is fried - I can say with 95% certainty that you will be spending time in prison.....that is the way things have gone these days.

Maybe this is the sort of thing they are warning about???

[Retropin]

I imagine you mean the following statement from their website:


**VERY IMPORTANT NOTICE**

240 AMUSEMENTS WOULD LIKE TO ISSUE THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT TO ALL POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS

1. *** BEWARE *** 240 Amusements does not purchase pinball machines from Europe. Ask your supplier where your future machine purchase is coming from. There is a reason why the machines coming from Europe are cheaper - let your own eyes tell you why. We have only ever sold 2 pinball machines originating from Europe in the history of our company - they were cheap trade ins and were sold as such.

1.   It is very important that everyone is aware of the pitfalls of buying "as is" machines. There is a reason why "as is" machines are sold cheaper than reconditioned machines. With an "as is" machine, you do not receive a warranty, nor will you receive any guarantee that integral parts of the machine will actually work.

2.   240 Amusements does not sell "as is" machines, and we DO NOT support customers, who have purchased "as is" machines from other suppliers. Do not fall into the trap of purchasing an "as is" machine, only to find that the seller will not answer your call for technical help, or will not help you if a major problem occurs with the machine.

3.   240 Amusements offers LIFETIME telephone support, to all machines that we sell. This means we will be there to help you AS LONG AS YOU OWN THE MACHINE.

4. BE AWARE that buying machines from backyarders, or "as is" machines that do not comply with the electrical standards of Australia is VERY VERY DANGEROUS.
ALL OF OUR MACHINES SOLD CONFORM WITH AUSTRALIAN ELECTRICAL DEVICE STANDARDS.

240 AMUSEMENTS ARE ACCREDITED TESTERS AND APPROVERS OF ELECTRICAL DEVICES.




I can see a couple of issues with EU electrical devices & pinball machines. Some main CPU boards are not easily configured for English & power leads will need to be changed. Apart from that there seems to be an implication that machines from Europe have been flogged and are of in a poorer state to pins from elsewhere - I think that is probably about the same scare tactics as point 4 of the statement above.

However - in ALL cases, the 220/240V AC wiring of ANY electrical machine should ONLY be changed/checked/replaced by a person suitably qualified to do so. There are all sorts of legal and safety implications these days that are getting worse by the second and tampering with the mains wiring 'could' end you up in serious trouble or dead!

Imagine - you have just changed the mains lead on your new import pin and for unknown reasons (not even your own doing) the left leg is grounded as it should be but the right leg is connected to trhe mains active. Little Johnny, the neighbours kid, comes over to play your new game and POW - he is fried - I can say with 95% certainty that you will be spending time in prison.....that is the way things have gone these days.

Maybe this is the sort of thing they are warning about???

Oh and it does happen!  Had a machine come to me to fix that was supposed to be "shopped and working 100%" .. it was from a very well kinown dealer. I plugged the machine in and the 240V was shorted across the door and so running through the grounding. To rectify the grounding issue the seller had REMOVED the machines ground from the mains.
I leant on it and got a bolt straight away.
Euro import AMAZING SPIDERMAN.... sys80 ground problems..... once again ground had been removed from 240V input side.

Thats 2 machines ive had come through my hands...... both potentially LETHAL.


In fact... it is ILLEGAL to sell a machine without first making sure its 240V safe.... all the "untested, as is, not plugged in "machines on Ebay are one hell of a gamble to sell. IF something goes wrong then the seller will certainly be entertaining Mr Big and his pet sausage in the stripey hole for a long time

[necroscope]

IF something goes wrong then the seller will certainly be entertaining Mr Big and his pet sausage in the stripey hole for a long time

That's gold mate,gave me the sunday morning chuckles 

[pinball god]

Nice point.

[48]

Two other things that I have found with imports, one is that people automatically assume that the black in the mains lead is neutral and connect it to the neutral on the new plug they put on.
The other one I find a lot is a 8 amp fuse on the line side of the tranny, I assume people just replace like for like if it is blown, rather than checking what size it should be.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I have only purchased once though that company

I would not buy though them again

[ddstoys]

Euro machines are usualy very Dirty and completely yellow from the cigarrettes they smoke for breakfast lunch and dinne.  Some are flogged to death others can be in really good condition just hidden from all the filth making them look like dogs.
   
    Also euro machines do tend to have plenty of dodgy hacks to keep the machines running.

  Compared to an aussie delivered machine which are smoke free and usually in a lot cleaner condition requiring alot less work

[wizo]

I'm allergic to pet sausages'!!!!!! 

[Strangeways]

This disclaimer has been on their site for years. I only know of three machines bought from them, and all three transactions had issues. Bad ones !

Scare tactics. I guess Breville have the same disclaimer on their website ? Should I expect that someone needs to test my toaster ?

Europe VS The rest of the world - "Buy from us. We don't buy European machines". I have seen hundreds of machines from Europe, USA and for the local market. If you look at the playfield and the backglass or translite, there is no way of determining where the machine originated from. The only way is to either look at the coin door or read the sticker on the back of the machine.  I've imported games from Europe that were reimports from the USA. Does not matter where the country of origin is - if you do your homework and you have a network of reliable buyers working for you, then you will find the best machines possible.  This "scare tactic" is aimed at other dealers who have access to suppliers. Sounds like these guys don't.

"Backyarders" - I LOVE this description of private importers, collectors and hobbyists. Often used to describe pinball enthusiasts who are smart enough too source and look after their own games. Often, the "backyarder" is able to recondition or restore a game to a higher level and they can sell the game cheaper. Anyone who is in the industry started off as a "backyarder" themselves.

All dealers have their own claims that TRY to seperate them from thier competition. Who can forget the claim made 5 years ago that "Europe has no pinballs left" and "Pinballs are an investment opportunity"  

[robm]

I disagree with people's perceptions that Euro pins are mostly or all way worse than Aus delivered ones

Of course if you compare unshopped to shopped machines there will always be a difference

I've grabbed quite a few pins from both Euro container imports and Aus delivered ex operator machines - and they both can be as good or bad as each other

Theatre of MAgic - straigh from the container, sold as is and unshopped

LOTR and TZ - Aus delivered and operated....

[Retropin]

I disagree with people's perceptions that Euro pins are mostly or all way worse than Aus delivered ones

Of course if you compare unshopped to shopped machines there will always be a difference

I've grabbed quite a few pins from both Euro container imports and Aus delivered ex operator machines - and they both can be as good or bad as each other

Theatre of MAgic - straigh from the container, sold as is and unshopped

LOTR and TZ - Aus delivered and operated....

Couldnt agree more... seen rubbish from USA, Europe and Aus. What is true is that you will pay more here than any of the other 2 countries for a title.
If there is a perception that Euro imports are smoke filled etc and full of hacks, its more likely that the importer bought cheap budget machines rather than quality... after all.... we the buyers dont know any different... or do we? Take a look at some of the projects that get sold off on Ebay..many of these are container fillers and thrown in to fill it up... its basically euro rubbish that gets sold off here by importers who bullshit about their stock.
But point remains that a Euro machine may well be dangerous etc... but thats the sellers responsibilty.. it up to them to make sure its compliant.
Then again... imports from Germany are mainly very clean.

At the end of the day... if the imports are inferior then look at the importer.. i can bet my left nut that better machines were to be had from the list and anything else is just dealer BS spin

[ddstoys]

Half if my machines are from euro containers and all have cleaned up really well and makes all the hard work even more enjoyable seeing the massive difference.

[The pinballist formally known as Dean Morgan]

Scare tacticks for sure by 240 amusements.  Some pins from Aus delivered are absouloute crap.  Depends on each individual case.  Judge the machine on condition not where it came from.  And Nino is right, I am an electrican by trade and it is illegal to sell electrical equipment untested.  Must be fitted with compliant lead (insulated pins etc) and tested for correct polaritys and earthing by qualified personal.

If someone gets an electric shock or worse (killed) from a machine the seller would be in all sorts of shit.  Ignorance is no excuse under law.

[Boots]

Scare tacticks for sure by 240 amusements.  Some pins from Aus delivered are absouloute crap.  Depends on each individual case.  Judge the machine on condition not where it came from.  And Nino is right, I am an electrican by trade and it is illegal to sell electrical equipment untested.  Must be fitted with compliant lead (insulated pins etc) and tested for correct polaritys and earthing by qualified personal.

If someone gets an electric shock or worse (killed) from a machine the seller would be in all sorts of shit.  Ignorance is no excuse under law.

Is that for imported machines or all machines?
There are an awful lot of Pinballs, video games, fridges, TV's, etc out ther that don't have this done to them.
Or do you mean only for businesses?