anyone purchaced cab decals from spacies

[Strangeways]

Okay, FWIW the owners of the DW rights know all about this. I told them straight up I was asked to do this for a couple of friends and printed 10 extra sets after they seen a comment somewhere. They said that's fine so long as that's it. And yes, that's it from me.

Also, I have had threats in the past from someone else threatening lawyers etc but my uncle is a patent lawyer so I asked for complaints to be sent to him. Needless to say nothing was received even though I have all contact details. I am not saying what I did was right though but I only posted a thread asking if anyone wanted a plastic redrawn, not printed, and I got a hell of a nasty pm within minutes. I mean if the pm was a bit more polite I would have been a bit more understanding but because it was rude I told him to send the cops, the same goes for the DW.

Although I said I am not going to do anymore I told them to pull there finger out of their ass and do something, keep people updated about licensing etc  or else more black market gear will come out of the woodwork.

Studley, I sent them just standard post so there was no tracking number. I did manage to get some more headbox decals done yesterday so  i do have a back up now.

That's really interesting, Malcolm. I don't think any hobbyists had nearly as much luck with approval to reproduce the art. I guess you had the right advise and it worked out well for Dr Who owners. If the same can be said for other decals sets, you would certainly fill "the void" in the repro market.

[spacies]

Yeah it is interesting. I think if you lived in the states it would be a different story, maybe.

I know guys pay a lot of money for the rights for a product, logo, license etc but in the pinball world my findings and dealings with 3rd party and license holders is that they really only have the license for the name and not the actual art. I stand to be corrected there though. They also own f**k all original screens, scans etc.

I also know for a fact that none of them can draw and rely on volunteers to help out, which is why Planetary Pinball posted that they were recently looking for new people to help with cabinets scans, redraws etc. I think there regulars have gone underground as well for the same reasons I have quit. I know that there is art for almost every cab you can think of on the black market because I know a lot of the other guys doing it.

[Caveoftreasures]

The age old argument about boot leg cabinet decal sets gets raised every year, and every year it is the same end result.  

Someone needs a set for their machine, they get a set made, then they print off an extra 6 or 12 sets to recoup some costs. Big deal. You then have 50 percent of people fretting about legal action, and the other 50 percent of people who just dont care. The reality of it all is that most of these machines are 20 yrs old, and 99.99 percent of the people ever involved with the original machines have long since moved on to other industries, or just dont care.

The fact remains, that the supposed old licence holders will never stop bootleg decals because they will never be able to stop people from producing them. Even if you were able to find a real address for the person making cabinet decals, how are they ever going to prove how many were made or sold, and at what amount etc. The cost to persue someone, if you can find their real address, will outweigh the lousy 3 or 4 grand the decal maker would ever get in gross $ returns. Then you have to prove the person hasnt got a few New Old Stock sets of decals laying around. I feel the "being sued" argument is definate paranoi. I could be wrong, but i doubt it.

I have to say, it always annoys me that people fret and scream in frantic worry about people supposedly being sued. It aint going to happen, or at least its such a small concern to most, that people who need decals will march forwards, produce the art that is required, and help both themselves and a few other hobbyists at the same time.
Thats the reality of it all. We arent talking sheep stations, just a lousy half a dozen sets of most decals.
99.99 percent of people feel the "being sued" scenairio is a crock of shit. Its 20 years later from the original production date.. The only people who care about these trivial matters are the hobbyist restorer types, and they are the ones who ultimately decide to produce what no one else has ever bothered to do.
I say rather than telling people "you will get sued", its best to say "good onya for making ya self and a few mates a lousy few sets". Things need to be put into context.

[Olivia_jason]

I agree 100 % with the above post

[Retropin]

LOl- being sued isnt a problem.. we all know that the amount of $$ that supposed rights holders missed out on for something they dont even produce is piss all amount.
What IS the problem is the legal costs involved in defending yourself. IF someone decided to take action.. and this doesnt even have to go to court, it can be withdrawn at any point. But at each step you have to defend yourself through appropriate legal means... if you dont, its an easy ride for any licence holder to enter court and find against you.... you HAVE to prove all the way that  you are prepared to go the distance. Distributors and rights holders hold all the cards here.. they can send bullshit legal notices and you have to submit proper ones at your own expense.
As we all know our mate WG threatened many people but sold many non licenced stuff all the time... as he emailed to me "unlike you and your friends, i have the money to burn in legal costs".

I sued my ex wife over custody of my son... it got to barrister point... then just before walking into court, she agreed to everything. Cost me $25000 to get to that point. I spent all that money for something that could have been settled amicably right at the start.
Now a distributor can do exactly the same.... take you almost to the court doors and then drop the case.... it has still cost you thousands to get to that point and yet noone has been sued.
remember... all this will happen overseas.. you are expected to attend court there.... big $$$$$$'s indeed!!!

[pinsanity]

exactly its all bs and bluff. if it was deemed worth while by these people theywould be producing them their selves. and then you would have the other threat is just another bloke doing what you are doing saying he has the rights when he doesn't, hoping you frea kout to much and stop

Actually no, it isn't all bluff and bs. I have seen firsthand where sets of unauthorised Scared Stiff cabinet artwork was reproduced, Queen B productions (Elvira's production company) was notified, and the person was required to surrender all the artwork for destruction and pay damages.

Just to add:

There seems to be a bit of confusion in this thread between the "rights holder", a "licensee" and a "3rd party rights holder".

Rights holder - WMS (Williams Industries Inc)
Licensee - IPB and Planetary Pinball
3rd party rights holder - varies depending on the title/artwork involved. (BBC, Lucasfilm, FIFA, Universal Studios et al)

A licensee needs approval from the rights holder to reproduce cabinet artwork of a satisfactory standard in order to protect the brand of a business which is still in operation (Williams).

Any artwork that contains 3rd party imagery, needs approval from both the pinball rights holder and a royalty or license fee made payable to the 3rd party rights holder. (Dr Who - BBC television, World Cup Soccer - FIFA, Dracula - the estate of the late Bram Stoker, Terminator - Carolco Studios, Indiana Jones - Lucasfilm etc.)

To get Dr Who cabinet art reproduced legally you would need to do the following:

1. Approach the licensees IPB or PlanetaryPinball to be granted a sub license to reproduce specific artwork (e.g. similar to a PhoenixArcade, TreasureCove scenario).

2. Submit completed artwork for approval by WMS -Williams Industries (the rights holder to Bally/Williams pinball artwork/designs).

3. Approach BBC television (3rd party rights holder) asking for permission to reproduce Dr Who logo in a material form (rights holders to the Dr Who brand name, imagery and associated logos)

4. Pay royalty fee (either lump sum or percentage per cabinet set produced) to BBC for use of Dr Who logo/brand. (Greg from RTBB indicated in an earlier post this fee was 3 years ago in the vicinity of $100,000.)

5. Pay "sub license" fee to PlanetaryPinball or IPB (either as lump sum or percentage of sales).

[Caveoftreasures]

We all know they were'nt. Who would.    Again, someone has to prove how many were sold, who to and at what cost.

Most people would go into court (if it ever happened on the 1 percent chance) and the first thing they would say is "how many did i sell, who did i sell them to, and how much did I charge", followed by the 2nd thing said which would be "yes, u aint got shit".

If we are talking about someone doing bootleg decals on ebay, or on their own company site, offering hundreds of sets to the world, the legal argument might, MIGHT have a little merit. BUT if we are talking someone producing a set for themselves and a few sets for their mates, where it is done with a bit of cash, and mums the world, the same old legal argument gets back to   .

Nothing has changed in the last 4 years, and it wont change in the next 10. People will never stop producing bootleg decals, and the more people talk legal smeagle, the more determined the bootleggers will become.
Mass producing sets and offering them everywhere will ofcourse bring unwanted attention, but 99.99 percent of bootleggers will never do that, hence always staying underground, and invisible. Pinsanity has a good argument, and it would definately be correct for those who BLATANTLY produce sets and offer them to the world on the record. or via ebay etc etc.

[rads]

Is there any licensing issues here?  Love the work but shouldn't the whole saga have been more discreet? 

My original post was only suggesting a public forum discussion wouldn't benefit anyone.  If I got a Dr Who I would want a set.  I am not moralising just suggesting that this has been handled differently to what I would have done

[Olivia_jason]

"remember... all this will happen overseas.. you are expected to attend court there.... big $$$$$$'s indeed!!!"

it would be only relivent if you stepped off a plane in the usa, good luck to them trying to convince the Aus gov to extradite you on reproducing pinball decals. if you got a letter saying you had to attend a court in usa, you would scrunch that letter up and put it in the bin, and have a jolly old laugh over it.

[studley67]

i did not want to make another public post on this topic,but i am stil awaiting my decals that i paid for in aug/sep.spacies wil not contact me 

[studley67]

brett,caveman,has offered to send me a set,but why should he have to put his hand in his pocket to cover up malcolms stuff up.this whole debarcle could have been avoided if he(spacies) had paid for registered post.that we all requested.malcolm you have my phone number so does everyone else in the www.f   ing contact me.i am starting to get really pissed off.

[studley67]

i will give my phone number again on the www ,it is 08 85693186.if you have a problem with me or me doing this,just ring the number

[swinks]

I had a quick look on AA and guess who is online leavin posts, hope he contacts you soon and does the right thing.

[studley67]

 

[Caveoftreasures]

It may still take another 7 to 14 days for the postal situation to clear itself up because of the xmas break and massive amounts of stuff still floating around because of xmas.

I was ordering large boxes of LED's from overseas before xmas and they were arriving in 10 days max. The week before xmas, I ordered 3 more boxes and only 1 of the 3 boxes has arrived and it only came yesterday. IF he has posted the decals to your correct address, it may take another 7 to 10 days for the decals to turn up.

and YES, they should have been registered so u could at least track them. YOU NEED to get a full refund from spacies, and if the decals turn up, you can then redeposit the money to his bank account. In my opinion, the refund is due and its a lesson to spacies for not providing a tracking number on the items when he was asked to do so many times, to stop these sorts of hassles.

another 7 to 14 days for the post to fix itself unfortunately. if anyone else has a magical line to spacies, even from the AA site where someone said he was recently posting, someone kindly ask spacies to contact damien(studley67) please.

yes, its very very very friggin frustrating. i know how ya feel mate.