Help please: coin door test buttons not working (Black Knight)

[Mr Pinbologist]

Its unlikely all 3 buttons would fail at the same time though 

True,  but if the "ADVANCE" button fails you can't get into diagnostics. I didn't mean I have seen them all fail at once, I meant I have seen 1 stop working many times. 

You might be lucky and only one side of the switch has died and you can use the other pole, Try soldering the wires onto the other set of pins on the switch (i.e solder the green wire to the other bottom pin and the orange wire to the other centre pin) It may give you a bit more life out of the switch until you can get another one.

+1 to this advice. I did exactly what beaky has described on a clients game that had the same fault, worked a treat and still going strong many months later 

[solar value]

OK thanks Retropin, Beaky and Mr Pinbologist, will try rewiring to the other pole tomorrow.

[solar value]

Just tried soldering the wires onto the other side but, alas, still not working. Anyone have a spare? Otherwise I will have to order from Marco Specialties.

[Retropin]

Just out of interest, if you momentarily put a screwdriver across the 2 terminals ( simulate closed switch) does anything happen then?

[solar value]

Just out of interest, if you momentarily put a screwdriver across the 2 terminals ( simulate closed switch) does anything happen then?

Yep, it works if I do that, so it's definitely the ADVANCE button that is broken.

[Retropin]

Just out of interest, if you momentarily put a screwdriver across the 2 terminals ( simulate closed switch) does anything happen then?

Yep, it works if I do that, so it's definitely the ADVANCE button that is broken.

OK.. cool, had to double check.
Like i said previously.. you can use ANY momentary switch from Jaycar to get this going... its not factory issue, but it does do the same thing

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SP0710

[solar value]

Ahh...OK, so that's what you meant. Thanks for clarifying, your earlier post went over my head. 

[beaky]

Just tried soldering the wires onto the other side but, alas, still not working. Anyone have a spare? Otherwise I will have to order from Marco Specialties.

Email sent

[solar value]

OK, I'm back on this again...

I replaced the switch with a new one and I'm a little embarassed to say that I still can't get into diagnostics when I press the ADVANCE button.

disconnect the memory protect switch that the door pushes on when it is closed (if you have one fitted) if this is stuck closed it will enable the memory protect and the Advance button will not work.

Tried this, no change.

Short CPU board, 1J4, Pin 2 (GND) to Pin 3 (ADVANCE) that is the momentary switch: each time you short these 2 terminals it will simulate pressing the red button with the orange and green wire.

Yes, this will get the game into diagnostics, starting with the displays showing "11111111", then "22222222", etc. Is this what is supposed to happen?

try shorting the Green and Orange wire with a screw driver, this will simulate pressing the red ADVANCE button.

Tried this and nothing happens, but the weird thing is if I put the screwdriver across the tab for the green and orange wire and also touch the metal bracket on the coin door which holds the switch in place (ground?), then this will also get the machine into diagnostics. I'm pretty sure this is what happened before when I thought I was shorting the orange and green wire, i.e. I thought I was shorting only the orange and green wire but actually I was also acccidentally touching ground with the screwdriver. I should have removed the switch from the bracket when I did this test earlier. So I guess that the original switch was probably OK after all.

So, does this mean anything to anyone? I'm guessing there is some problem with the wiring between the switch and the connector on the board?

[beaky]

there is a break / bad connection somewhere between the cpu board ( IJ4 pin 2, white wire) and the white wire on the door switches. the diagnostic switches use a ground as a common that is why it is working when you short the wire with the screw driver to the metal.

start by checking the wires at the memory protect switch one will loop in and out (it should be white, this is the common for the diagnostic switches also.) and the wiring at the front door connector

if you still cant find the fault there, there are a total of 4 connections between the cpu board and the diagnostic switches for the common wire, the first is at IJ4 (pin 2), the second where the back box wiring connects to the playfield cabinet wiring (pin 4) and the third where the door wiring connects to the cabinet wiring (pin 13) and the 4th is the spade terminal that connects to the memory protect switch, from there it goes to the diagnostic switches.  

[solar value]

OK, thanks again Beaky and to all who offered suggestions along the way - Switches are now working!  

Turns out it was a bad connection on IJ4.

Only problem is, how do I get the little red and black button-tops off the old switches to put them on the new set of switches I installed on the coin door? They really seem to be stuck on, anyone have a technique for this or is it just brute force?

Also, when I was mucking around with IJ4 I broke the little piece of black plastic which covers the back (wire-side) of the connector. Anyone have a source for this stuff?

Now, the reason I wanted to get into the game adjustments was so that I could turn the background sound on. My game has the galloping horse sound and the various sounds when you hit the targets but it seems like there should be more than this. The machine on the PAPA gameplay video (http://pinball.org/videos/gameplay-videos/black-knight/), for example, produces quite a few more sounds than mine.

So I tried turning the background sound on at function 39 but no change (it may have already been on). Then I tried the sound test in diagnostics: sounds are produced for "02", "03" and "04" but I have no sounds for "00" and "01". Also, when I press the sound test button on the sound board itself, there's a couple of sounds that I've never heard while playing the game.....Where can we go from here?

Thanks, SV.

[Homepin]

Sounds like you have a fault on the sound board (pun intended) - better talk to Beaky......

[beaky]

It sounds like a wiring problem similar to the one you just fixed.
 
The Sounds are triggering signals are sent from the cpu board 1J8 pins 8 to 12 and got to sound board 10J3 pins 2 to 5 and 7 so check those connection first

the wiring between the cpu and the sound board is listed below.

1J8             10J3
8        -         7    sound select 4
9        -         4    sound select 3
10      -         5    sound select 2
11      -         2    sound select 1
12      -         3    sound select 0

When you press the test on the sound board it should play some sounds followed by some words and loop back to the sounds and so on

check the wiring on the mentioned plugs, if all looks fine and you still have no sounds then you can check that all the sound inputs are working on the sound board by unpluging 10J3 on the sound board and using a wire with alligator clips on both ends.
clip one end of the wire to the bracket that the sound board is mounted to and with the other end ground each of the following pins one at a time, you should get a different sound from each pin. 10J3 pins 2, 3, 4, 5, 7
the other pins on 10J3 are not used.
you will not get every sound effect the the board can produce this way, to get all the sounds multiple pins are used together.

if you do not get a sound from each pin then there is a problem on the sound board. if you do then there is still a problem with the wiring between the 2 boards or a problem on the CPU board

[solar value]

Thanks for the reply, Beaky.

Clip one end of the wire to the bracket that the sound board is mounted to and with the other end ground each of the following pins one at a time, you should get a different sound from each pin. 10J3 pins 2, 3, 4, 5, 7.

No sounds from pins 2 and 3 when I did this test, the other pins produced a sound when tested.


By the way, I got the button-tops off the old diagnostic switches (brute force did the trick).

[Homepin]

Refer to post #26