2013 Pinball Show - where would the best place be

[Retropin]

I sold some.. still have 20+ machines here.

What about the idea of an organiser who is a member of both forums. I am a member of both but cant be arsed posting the same thing on 2 forums.. if i were to do a restore thread for both id never get anything else done!

There are quite a few members who are active on both... it could be done with such a member.
It is after all about pinball and BOTH forums cater for this.
 Forums are really a small part of this hobby.. most of the stencils i sell are non forum people.. this hobby is so much bigger than any forum

[Caveoftreasures]

A few good points Gav.      One thing about your last comment, the hobby is bigger than just the forums, yes, But I havent seen anyone outside of a forum try n organise a pinball expo in the last 3 plus years.

Is there such a person who loves pinball and has as much passion as a forum member. I think AP and AA shld have a world record recorded by The Guiness Book of Records for being the best n most loyal pinball people on the planet. !

Something else i thought about, I dont think machines shld be for sale at a expo, unless its a NIB Stern. There shouldnt be competition inside a expo unless its a pinball competition i believe. Or the first thing that happens when people see price tags on 2nd hand pinballs is "rip off" ""so and so charges too much, its not shopped properly etc etc". A brochure representing a business etc is enough, no more machine sales at a expo would be my ruling UNLESS it was a for sale only sticker, with price on application after the Expo, by calling XYZ seller.  Parts yes, etc etc. NIB yes, 2nd hand, some strict rules. Displays, pinny tournaments etc, part sales, resto services etc, all welcome, all fun stuff.

Everyone shld keep discussing ideas, it certainly all helps.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I believe that it is possible to make this happen, but want is needed is for a group of people who live in the same place, to be able to get together around a kitchen table, and work out a plan that suits them

Trying to do this on a forum, it is hard to get around the ‘white noise’ that discussions seem to generate on-line

You would need to have in this group, people who can see ‘big picture’ (Retropin, Cavey, Nick). People who run their own business and are used to solving (or know how to find those who can) big problems
This is not to say other peoples input is unnecessary, but experience will make the project go smoother

[Pintoxicated]

A few good points Gav.      One thing about your last comment, the hobby is bigger than just the forums, yes, But I havent seen anyone outside of a forum try n organise a pinball expo in the last 3 plus years.

Is there such a person who loves pinball and has as much passion as a forum member. I think AP and AA shld have a world record recorded by The Guiness Book of Records for being the best n most loyal pinball people on the planet. !

Something else i thought about, I dont think machines shld be for sale at a expo, unless its a NIB Stern. There shouldnt be competition inside a expo unless its a pinball competition i believe. Or the first thing that happens when people see price tags on 2nd hand pinballs is "rip off" ""so and so charges too much, its not shopped properly etc etc". A brochure representing a business etc is enough, no more machine sales at a expo would be my ruling UNLESS it was a for sale only sticker, with price on application after the Expo, by calling XYZ seller.  Parts yes, etc etc. NIB yes, 2nd hand, some strict rules. Displays, pinny tournaments etc, part sales, resto services etc, all welcome, all fun stuff.

Everyone shld keep discussing ideas, it certainly all helps.

Having machines for sale will get people through the door and maybe raise the bar for some retailers to actually do the right thing by their machines and their customers.  It is the "perceived" favouritism e.g. only AMD can sell machines that will see anything like this fail again.  Surely there must be some lessons learnt from 2009.  Why would any other retailer bother attending if they can't have their items on the floor and ready to sell.  You need to strike whilst the iron is hot, people from interstate or that have travelled a distance to get there won't come back next week to buy a machine. 

Also remember, this whole thing needs to be funded somehow, charge per square metre, the more machines there for sale the bigger the space needed and in turn it generates income for the event.

This is merely only a thread on a forum and we can already see the difficulties involved. 

[goodolddays]

This is merely only a thread on a forum and we can already see the difficulties involved. 

So true and such a shame . Maybe a way forward is to get in contact with the organisers of some of the shows in the US and see if they would be willing to advise on how they make it happen over there .

I have no idea but can't imagine why US and Aus would be that different in terms of red tape etc.

[GORGAR 1]

I reckon now's the right time pinballs growing again with WOZ coming out and AC/DC also coming very soon what a showcase to the new pinball people both have appeal WOZ with the LCD screen and AC/DC well who hasn't heard of them? If I win Tatts I'll do one but I doubt I'll win tatts

Peter

[Strangeways]

A few good points Gav.      One thing about your last comment, the hobby is bigger than just the forums, yes, But I havent seen anyone outside of a forum try n organise a pinball expo in the last 3 plus years.

Is there such a person who loves pinball and has as much passion as a forum member.

Michael Shalhoub organized the 2009 Expo. He does not frequent forums. He never has, and he never will. Of all the people who know the industry and hobby, he is the right man for the job. He knows all the big collectors who are also not on forums.

[Retropin]

A few good points Gav.      One thing about your last comment, the hobby is bigger than just the forums, yes, But I havent seen anyone outside of a forum try n organise a pinball expo in the last 3 plus years.

Is there such a person who loves pinball and has as much passion as a forum member.

Michael Shalhoub organized the 2009 Expo. He does not frequent forums. He never has, and he never will. Of all the people who know the industry and hobby, he is the right man for the job. He knows all the big collectors who are also not on forums.

He also covered his costs with the so called " container sale".. and i think at this point i might clear some stuff up.

Expo "09 barely covered its costs... it really was a fine line... no one is going to do this if its just a big financial sink hole.
The auction at "09 was meant to be a NO RESERVE.. yes  it was a bit of a storage shed clear out, but each game was meant to be sold at whatever price it found.
" Other" people were then allowed to enter games into the auction... this was a bad move as suddenly BALLY ROLLING STONES were being sold off, very badly restored... STAR TREK with an overlay... again a piss poor restore... all these had a reserve on them and a hefty one at that... it was a blatent ripp off and money grab by one party ( whos name will not be mentioned).

Mike Shalhoub had many games for sale.... not one of these had a reserve... to the side were GENCO GYPSY FORTUNE TELLERS... restored $12K... unrestored $8K. These were one off items to be sold... which the restored one did... Mike also had a stall of EM parts... whole trays of NOS coils being sold for $25... original schematics - $5... GTB bumper assemblies NOS - $.50.
Try getting those prices ANYWHERE

Im afraid in the end Mike doing a few well known collectors a favour bit him on the arse.. he wasnt happy about it i assure you, but typical Mike " what do you do about it... its done.. so what do you do?"

[pinnies4me]

Michael Shalhoub EXPOsed a large lot of fairly average container pins in 2009. As Strangeways said, he has the contacts and certainly could organise a real Expo I suspect.

Nug and I worked nights for two weeks to finish Coconut Island, then drove all Friday night to Sydney, set it up, and had a great time meeting a bunch of people. Quite a few AA guys came over for a chat, was nice to meet a few. One or two made a special effort to avoid coming near the Coconut Island area as it also was the AP area, that's OK too. Nug and I had a fun moment cornering one of them and saying hello, all in good fun.

Strangeways has already cleaned this thread up, removing some of the Forum v Forum rubbish. Those of you with an agenda on that topic, just drop it. Seriously. I cannot be bothered reading posts about it, and to this point have not bothered to comment either.

It is absolute BS to attribute the potential success or failure of a possible Expo to anything to do with forums. It is highly unlikely a forum based Expo would amount to much, because there is no commercial benefit potential (as AP is not a commercial venture). Expos are a commercial venture, hence why the MS 2009 had some success – while it was mainly a sale of a bunch of container pins, it also brought together some other industry participants sort of like an Expo, and there were as Gav said quite a few hard to get bits and pieces. When or if a commercial interest decides that an Expo will potentially have a profit result (perhaps not the event itself, but ongoing to the sponsors of it), we might see one, and hopefully representatives of both forums will participate and contribute to the Expo experience, just as AP did in 2009, at considerable personal cost to some members.

AP is a place for collectors, hobbyists and restorers, good times, and a dose of BS from most of us from time to time. Have fun and enjoy it here. There are members of both forums here - great, each offers a different member experience. I read and contribute elsewhere too. But it is not a commercial venture, would not be able to profit from an Expo, so could not afford to create one. But we certainly would contribute if asked.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Cavey, I would attend the expo that you describe
I would bring two games for the general public to play for free

But I would not drive out of Victoria

I would allow parts vendors

I would allow those bringing games to have them for sale (if they wish)
It seems that this is how the US expos run

[Caveoftreasures]

Thankyou Pete. The USA model works in the USA and wont work here cause they all get along over their and work together as a industry, that model would need everyone over here on the same page, so I thought of a idea that bypasses having to make everyone get along, by removing the dis-agreeing parties and coming up with a idea which allows a expo to work, with the focus on the people who do get along, ALL the players, hence the  ""What about a expo I described with 100 plus machines. A players expo"".

Heres a point I want to ask about with sellers. The moment you have people selling a machine/or machines, it turns into a place for every dodgy bastard to bring machines to sell. I DONT WANT A 4 SALE EXPO. A players expo. Then some people want some dealers to attend and not others. POLITICS POLITICS POLITICS. If it games to play only, its a players expo. Parts for sale, also has similar issues, some sellers attend, but not if so and so attends, then that seller gets all his mates n friends to boycott it etc. More polotics.

If its a players only expo, no one can whinge complain, hijack the thing. A very very simple expo, just machines to play, just machines to see, just people to talk with, just fun, and NO business. Thats the expo that this fractured industry could agree on, and its all about the players, and the pinny owner, not about politics, who's prices are too high, who came n who didnt because one seller doesnt like another seller. JUST MACHINES TO PLAY AND PEOPLE TO MEET WITH.  SIMPLE ! People could fly to QLD for around $199 return, so no car is required, just a cheap motel once here for a fri/sat night.
***The same thing could happen in Melb, if u guys got a cheap council building, got together and had 100 machines in the local large community centre etc, these simple ideas could work and be very effective. Takes all the politics out of it. I reckon people shld consider the focus on a Players Expo, without all the stuff people will never agree on. Food for thought. !

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Re things for sale
 
I see your point, but whrn you go to there, you may as well just have a meet and invite a few non pinheads alonng

[robm]

To me, an expo with just machines to play is simply a meet or get together.

As others have said, in order to appeal to the general public there will need to be machines/parts/mods for sale.  Also would be great to have some speakers on repairs/mods/history/how to find bargains etc.

If i was to attend (which i would be reasonably keen to), i would love to stock up on some parts, have a look at some stalls where guys like Homepin have some of their replacement boards setup, have a look at some LED mods people are selling, and hopefully walk away with a few bits and pieces.

I reckon a competition is also essential to get more people interested - i have been to meets before with comps and it is a great way to get together for a bit of friendly competitiveness.

I also think machines need to be for sale - and so what if some people have elevated prices.  At the end of the day, no-one is obliged to buy anything - charge the sellers a small percentage of the advertised for sale price if it sells.  If there are a few sellers, it won't take a genius to work out who has good deals and who doesn't.

[Caveoftreasures]

anything to do with selling involves all the industry, and since most cant agree on what time of day it is, that sort of expo , at this stage, would be doomed to failure, if it wasnt, it would have happened in the last 3 years etc.  and then we have the over inflated prices, bodgy machines, people fleecing the public with junk, not a great way to showcase a pinny expo.  thats why i called my idea a players expo. and didnt call it a for sale expo.

we can buy pins off ebay, each other, and thru dealers 365 days a year, why stuff up a decent pinball showing with money and greed. ?

ahh it doesnt matter. but it was worth a try.lol     maybe expo is the wrong word then.   maybe "huge get together" might be next years post topic.lol

[Strangeways]

Michael Shalhoub EXPOsed a large lot of fairly average container pins in 2009. As Strangeways said, he has the contacts and certainly could organise a real Expo I suspect.

Nug and I worked nights for two weeks to finish Coconut Island, then drove all Friday night to Sydney, set it up, and had a great time meeting a bunch of people. Quite a few AA guys came over for a chat, was nice to meet a few. One or two made a special effort to avoid coming near the Coconut Island area as it also was the AP area, that's OK too. Nug and I had a fun moment cornering one of them and saying hello, all in good fun.

Strangeways has already cleaned this thread up, removing some of the Forum v Forum rubbish. Those of you with an agenda on that topic, just drop it. Seriously. I cannot be bothered reading posts about it, and to this point have not bothered to comment either.

It is absolute BS to attribute the potential success or failure of a possible Expo to anything to do with forums. It is highly unlikely a forum based Expo would amount to much, because there is no commercial benefit potential (as AP is not a commercial venture). Expos are a commercial venture, hence why the MS 2009 had some success – while it was mainly a sale of a bunch of container pins, it also brought together some other industry participants sort of like an Expo, and there were as Gav said quite a few hard to get bits and pieces. When or if a commercial interest decides that an Expo will potentially have a profit result (perhaps not the event itself, but ongoing to the sponsors of it), we might see one, and hopefully representatives of both forums will participate and contribute to the Expo experience, just as AP did in 2009, at considerable personal cost to some members.

AP is a place for collectors, hobbyists and restorers, good times, and a dose of BS from most of us from time to time. Have fun and enjoy it here. There are members of both forums here - great, each offers a different member experience. I read and contribute elsewhere too. But it is not a commercial venture, would not be able to profit from an Expo, so could not afford to create one. But we certainly would contribute if asked.

Exactly right Nick - Well said.

This is the key for me - " It is absolute BS to attribute the potential success or failure of a possible Expo to anything to do with forums ".

I've cleaned up the thread (again), and please keep the thread on topic.