Curious how do you rate a game

[swinks]

Saw a interesting comment that I agree with on the AC/DC thread but didn't want to hi-jack that thread but worth a good discussion.

When they is a opportunity to play a game for the first time including ones that you may have pre-ordered how to rate a game as beeing a good, average or poor player.

For me to determine if it is a good to great player the following things come into play:
- theme (quite open here)
- sound (something that gets you into the groove of the game)
- graphics (colourful - I don't like games with too much black / red - personal thing)
- playfield layout (fan, congested etc)
- game play (fluid, stop - go)
- did I enjoy it (fun factor)

Some people have written in other threads that a game sometimes has to grow on you, to me this would be a concern. I like to give a game at least 10 plays to determine if I like the style of game, roughly learn some of the rules and just that I had fun.

When I played IM and MB I walked away saying man I have to have that game with less than 5 plays, X-men I walked away thinking that was fun but since a pro is different to a LE I will have to try that before tempted to buy. Some games have certain features that I like but others that would just annoy me eg - not bagging out AC/DC and I don't mind the game to play especially if there is no option of other games to play but on the Premium and LE I hate the lower playfield and will pick any song bar a Hell one but overall enjoy playing the game avoiding the lower playfield.

Just wondering what alot of you consider when you first are on the look out for a game, as not always do you have the luxury of 50 games.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Is it fun?

Are the objectives clear?

I am not the worlds greatest pinball player, I am not looking for a deep rule set, I doubt if I have ever stacked modes
I just want have some fun

Which is why I rate white water to be a better game than LOTR

[Cow Corner]

A combo of flow,good audio and a sense of humor is what I like. Theme can be the icing on the cake but is not the be all and end all. EG- When I first saw the videos of SM and IM I didn't think too much of the games as potential players or games I would like to own but when I played them both I was blown away by the combo of flow,audio,speed and fun and had to have them both. They had instant wow factor when I played them the first time.
It just has to have that wow factor about it for me in the first few plays to get me in.
If I have to continually play a title to try to get into it I know it is not for me.

[pinnies4me]

Could be very different for sited vs. home pins.

On site, the theme will be the first thing that attracts me - if there's more than one pinball of course. If the venue has just one Sega, I'd be playing it!! Given a choice, I think the theme would determine where the coins go first, and that means that its hard for a manufacturer because themes will appeal to different people. I suspect that's why Sega went down the mostly movie-themed games, at least a game at the time of the big picture release might have attraction.

At home depth might be a strong consideration. For me, I don't think it matters. AFM is relatively deep, Firepower typical 1980's no depth, yet they rank as pretty much equal favorites for me.

Thinking about why I have and prefer AFM over MM, and everything else in the collection, I think theme gets the highest part of the ranking equation for me, closely followed by a flowing game rather than a stop/start game (ie why I can't handle TSPP despite loving the humour or TZ despite its other attractions and the fact I love the theme).

Humour is important to me in later games, one of the attractions of AFM and BBB.

I also am very much partial to the artwork - another reason why Stern games loose out to me as they are too much photoshop looking.

So for me it seems to be -

Theme
Flow
Artwork
Humour.

[Retropin]

A GREAT pin is a combination of theme.. artwork coupled with game play... audio is neither her nor there for me seeing as 90% of my machines have chimes.

I think the real killer of a good design is such a fine balance that many pins fall short... the ultimate goal should never be unachievable, but at the sametime it should be achievable every now and again. It should be a game of skill shot coupled with a hint of luck.
FIREPOWER rates highly as its a game where the goal is simply to achieve multiball... how many FP owners will attest that you can lock 2 balls... but that 3rd ball is a bugger. Thats why FP is such a good game... you are almost there, but at the sametime, off by a mile.
Gameplay and goal should be like a tempting carrot in front of you that you can smell.. touch with the tongue but not quite grab with the teeth.
That is GREAT pinball design and the greats are few and far between

[Caveoftreasures]

THEME - Theme is the first thing to like or dislike.

ARTWORK - Artwork is the 2nd thing to like or dislike.

PLAYFIELD LAYOUT - Playfield layout seperated into 2 different categories.
a) can u see alot of the playfield and its various shots or is alot of it hidden which is no good for play or cleaning/maintainence
b) are the shots challenging and varied, will it be a game which flows and has speed, or is it a stop start sort of playfield

AUDIO - Is the audio really annoying, or is it varied and interesting, something u can listen to over n over again, do u like the audio ?

GAME OBJECTIVE - what is the overall objective of the game, what challenges are the main attractions, are there special toys to lock balls, unusual ramps, timers for different missions, what do u continually have to do to have fun playing this game

GAME UNIQUENESS - if u have ALOT other pinball machines, what is different about this title, what makes it stand out from others in a large collection.
Is it a machine you are buying just for yourself to play, or is it a title u are also buying to share with as many friends n family as u can.

Some people rate a game after 5 plays, some people play 50 games, some people just buy it anyway and learn about the game over a 3 or 4 month period once they get it home.
The one thing I have learnt about my DMD machines, is that there are things, fun things u find out about a machine sometimes after having a few hundred games, so to rate a machine after 5 plays to me is just a guess, because you cannot learn a machine to its capacity unless you have put alot of time into it. 5 or 10 plays wouldnt even scratch the surface of the various programming that the machine has.
  Many missions/modes would not even have been played, so rating a game after 5 or 10 plays would be rating only part of the game.

You can rate it quickly, first impressions etc, but to permanently rate a game after 10 minutes would just be guessing in my book.
That would be a 10 minute rating, not a decent evaluation based on lengthy game time and game experience.  I say this because if u then played the game for another 3 or 4 hours, you would have learnt alot more and experienced alot more than a 10 minute quick rating.
(like judging a woman 4 ever after a 10 minute date versus being married to her for a while.lol   yes, its very different.lol)

I have always said there is no such thing as a bad pinball machine, because just because one person hates it, doesnt mean the next person doesnt love it.

[Olivia_jason]

umm,
theme would attract me to the game firstly, some themes i wouldn't go near because they are so bad, but in saying that i hate soccer but i really liked world cup soccer 94, game i had. also i played a capcom pool game that absolutely amazed me, but whilest its theme wasnt that attractive the graphic were so if its a bad them it has to do allot more work every where else to make up for it. but a theme is important for sales point imo, games like WOZ theme i wouldnt see me buying even if the game plays good or not, would be a theme i wouldn't own, another would be "Hard bodies", lol
there are certainly themes that would be suicidal to make imo, and some themes you can make average games and sell easy.


sounds i dont really care to much about, unless it is just plain annoying again like "hard bodies" lol, of course nice sound is a bonus.

game layout i find important the most, it also needs to sucker you in straight away, even if it eats your balls straight up. i want to play a game that has that mystery to it, were the ball disappears into a cave or a ramp changes the ball direction, or hides the ball and you wonder how it all works, and all that adds that element of surprise
needs to feel like it has depth to the game.
the game play doesn't matter if its hard or easy but if toys are in the road for wank factor then the game layout is wrong. I like ramps and tunnels and 3d look to a play-fields but i hate cheap looking toys. Thats why i love SOF so much, its very 3d looking and there is no toys. ive played plodders that are very engaging, so speed isnt always an issue, ive also played fast games that are boring.
Speed doesn't make a fun game always but in most cases a fast flowing game is fun, even if it kicks your ass when you play it, you need to have that feature you need to fluke from time to time imo.
I love a game the ball just disappears and reappears at a time you dont expect. and that marvel of wondering where the ball is going to come from.
why these manufacturers now put toys and figurines on the playfield to try and give the game depth is beyond me,
 good art and clever layouts that help with the flow of the game rather than something stuck on the playfield that looks pretty but hampers the game just shows lack of effort from the designer.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Funny, nobody is mentioning the software

When I opened my Batman TDK, it was early code, the game was shit, I thought I had just pissed away several thousand
Just updating the code to what was available at the time improved the game immensely, I could then live with the game
The latest code is a vast improvement over the original

Strangely Ironman was still a great game with what it shipped with, V0.82, not even a full code

[Olivia_jason]

Funny, nobody is mentioning the software

When I opened my Batman TDK, it was early code, the game was shit, I thought I had just pissed away several thousand
Just updating the code to what was available at the time improved the game immensely, I could then live with the game
The latest code is a vast improvement over the original

Strangely Ironman was still a great game with what it shipped with, V0.82, not even a full code

you would like to think they would have this correct before sending them, rather than sending a half finished game with the hopes they will come up with a better code.

maybe this is the problem with game designs, they design with out even knowing how they will run it or even the rule set.
you can understand bug fix updates, but some of these codes from what i have read change the game dramatically which sort of leaves you wondering how they have designed the game? if they needed to release a code 6 months after to change its rules.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Jason, they do it because they can
it is very easy to update the code on a modern Stern

It seems that each time they do a new run, the software gets upgraded

the problem is, if a machine is a flop, the code does not get updated/finished

[pinnies4me]

Funny, nobody is mentioning the software

That's what I was referring to when talking about depth.

[Strangeways]

I rate a game based on two scenarios ;

1 - If I remember the game from my childhood, no matter what the title - I rate it. Purely for sentimental reasons. A good example would be Williams "Honey", Williams "Smart Set", Gottlieb "Super Score", Williams "Winner". Not great players, but I remember them from when I was young. Again - NIB games that I opened as a child - KISS, Paragon, Space Invaders.. Games from MY history. They mean a lot to me.

2 - Theme, playability and rare. I don't mean cookie cutter "rare" - I mean they are games that are near impossible to find. Stern "Freefall", Bally "Viking", Bally "Embryon", GTB "Spirit". These games are mostly from my favorite era - the "golden years" of 1977 - 1982. My collection features most of the games (I want) from Bally, Stern and Gottlieb in this period. Playable titles include Paragon, Fathom, Medusa .. the list goes on.

I don't rate many DMDs. Most need the flashing lights and animation to make them playable. I still enjoy Addams Family as much as the first time I played it. Cirqus Voltaire is still the most playable DMD - daylight - Then Scared Stiff and Terminator 3. I'm not into the "rules" of DMDs. Pinball is not meant to be like Chess. I like the physics of the games. A ball smashing through pop bumpers is more exciting and appealing to me. I suppose most of us "old farts" think alike.

I lean more towards games that have sentimental value. The rare ones are just the icing on the cake.

[elkor-alish]

I've discovered recently that theme is not as important to me as I first thought.
I have had a Terminator 2 for some time and I love that theme.
However I can't get a good game out of it and the machine itself is in awesome condition.
I just don't enjoy playing it. Maybe I'm just a crap player but there doesn't seem to be much to it.
The Shadow always comes to my mind as a theme that sucked from a bad movie but what a fun game.
It has some really interesting innovations and ideas, good player.
Getaway has very little depth but is one of my favourite games.
I really think it depends on the pin. Some games are good fun but they don't tick all the boxes.
I rate a game on how much I enjoy playing in the first few games. A good game should suck you in straight away but this different for each person.
Whether that's the flashing lights, theme, music or whatever. Above all, I want to have fun playing.
For me the bonus is a deeper rule set for when I get better at the game.

Good topic, I'd love to see others opinions.