Author Topic: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started  (Read 7853 times)

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Offline Homepin

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Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« on: September 23, 2012, 07:18:32 PM »
They just keep coming....... *%*  All the parts are placed now I just have to wire them. I have laid all output transistors flat and provided a 3mm hole to bolt them to the board should we choose to. Another gold heatsink on the regulator  %.% and I have added a blocking diode to the base of each output transistor so that 'when' it shorts it doesn't take out the parts upstream - well, that's the theory anyway.…


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Offline Homepin

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2012, 08:58:49 PM »
Most of the tracks placed for the driver transistors but I have stalled a bit as I suspect a schematic error and I will need to confirm that in daylight against the actual board I have here?? It is very surprising how many errors I find in schematics when re-creating boards........

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Offline Homepin

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Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project moving on
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2013, 01:03:13 PM »
Well I have moved along with this board (and at the same time the Bally A3 solenoid driver board). I have determined that the best way forward for both these boards is to bring them into the 21st century and use FETs for outputs driven by optocouplers which makes the output transistors fully isolated from the driving circuitry and eliminating problems upstream should a FET short.

Probably the main deciding factor was when I had a long hard look at the driver board I have here:



Using darlingtons (which were the best thing available at the time this board was made) suddenly seemed a pretty stupid idea!

FETs have some excellent traits such as (specs are for the ones I am using) 'on resistance' of just 0.044 ohms. This means that, when switched correctly, they will radiate almost zero heat.

Here is the trick. Some other replacement board manufacturers have seemingly overlooked a very important part of the specs for FETs and the TTL that drives them. In order to switch on FULLY there is a very wide range of gate voltages specified by the manufacturer. Depending on the production batch of the FETs the "fully conducting" gate voltage can need to be as high as 3 volts (for logic level FETs).

Now the problem part. The driver chip is TTL (a 74LS154) and the specs for that part clearly show that an output high is "typically" 3V4, which is JUST enough to saturate a FET on the high end of its specs BUT the minimum "high" is just 2V7 and this is NOT enough in every situation!

 

You simply cannot design electronics this way - I ALWAYS allow as much margin for variances in parts as possible. So what to do about this dicky drive situation?? After a little head scratching the solution became clear. Use opto couplers. They can be driven easily by the 74LS145 and the output of them is fully electrically isolated from the input and so can be connected to the same supply as the output driver FET. In the case of Hankin boards, 24V.

This means we would now have a gate voltage somewhere up around 20V - in fact, we don't even need to use logic level FETs, almost any FET would work OK with this circuit. Here is my circuit scratching:



It seemed like a great idea on paper so I thought I would breadboard it to confirm all was good:



That was succesful so I moved on to the layout. I wanted to lay the transistors flat on the board - I just do not like dozens of transistors standing up waiting to be bent, bashed and broken off the board. I had already done something similar with the Dr. Who mini-playfield driver board. I pinned them to the board with a plastic clip to hold them in place:



So, scrap the design work to date on the Hankin board and start again. Added the required number of optocouplers and changed the orientation of the FETs as they seem to fit better vertically on the board:



A bit of wiring and fiddling to go but I think the end result will be a board that will last better than the original and it uses ALL parts that are still manufactured today so repairs, if they are ever required, should be OK well into the future.

More to come............
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Offline Agentbarry

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2013, 05:13:16 PM »
Looks awesome mate! good solution using the opto couplers

Offline beaky

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 09:02:01 PM »
how about the HCT version instead of LS? "74HCT154"
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Offline howzat

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2013, 10:06:18 AM »
Hi Mike
Ive been watching your post  and Ive talked To mr Pinboligist about getting a board from you  for my Howzat    It has a gosting problem that carnt be fixed  he has tried everything  he also spoke to Gav at Pinfest and its still ghosting    which is really  annoying   
I will be one of the 1st to buy one from you and im sure it should fix the problem   which is common in these games   This game is a keeper 

I wonder if you would have one by Pinfest  :lol                   Howzat

Offline Homepin

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2013, 10:39:12 AM »

I wonder if you would have one by Pinfest  :lol                   Howzat

Well, that would depend FIRST on the organisers setting a date for Pinfest..... $.$

I am certainly working towards having the full set ready by then if possible. I hope to be able to present a full set to David Hankin.

The MPU is finished (and running) as is the power supply (just waiting for the board house on that one). The sound board is in the final 'double checking' stages and this driver board still needs all the SCR's 'wired' but is only about three or four days work away from the final checking stage.

Here is a small update picture:

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Offline beaky

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 02:55:00 PM »
looking great
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Offline Homepin

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2013, 08:25:57 PM »
Finally finished this layout. There were a lot of small silly holdups but I think we are finally there. I have ordered a small run of boards and hope to have one built and tested in time for Pinfest. I have changed all the solenoid drivers to MOSFETs that are opto driven to prevent board fryups.





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Offline elkor-alish

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 02:27:23 PM »
I love that you're not just reproducing these old boards but improving on them.

You'll have to let us all know what David Hankin says when you show him the completed set of boards.  :)
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Offline pinball god

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2013, 11:33:23 PM »
I'm not being a smart here but most probably ignorant, is there a big market for hankin stuff? Is there a lot of units out in the field?
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Offline Homepin

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2013, 07:00:01 AM »
You're not being smart. The "market" for Hankin boards is so small it's ridiculous. If I sell more than a dozen boards TOTAL I will be amazed. My sell price will probably be way below actual cost of production in any case. A perfect example is my Zac MPU. I sell it for around $100 BELOW my cost. Yes, even at $300 sell price I lose $100 every time I sell one. This is the EXACT reason nobody else is making the ZAC MPU.

Homepin (as it was when I started it and as it still is today) is NOT a money making business - it is my hobby - I have tried to make this clear to "certain foreigners" who ONLY do things for money it seems.

I am re-making these Hankin boards (at great cost to me of both time and money) because it will help some who want to restore their machines AND my bonus is I have helped to save some classic machines that otherwise would have been parted out or possibly never had a chance at being restored. I seriously doubt anyone else would have made these boards.

Over the past four years I have tried to look for and make boards that "others" deemed too small a demand or too low profit. My aim has always beeen to HELP the hobby not to stifle it as many others in the pinball "business" seem to aim for!

The R&D on some of my boards would make a lot cringe - even a small motor driver board can cost in excess of $5K to get into (small) production for a return of (gross) $50 a board....if I'm lucky I might sell one a month, if lucky and make $5 "profit"! I have spent in excess of AU$400K in the past 4 years on Homepin for a GROSS return of around $100K. Not very good business sense is it now......

I will extend this "attitude" to the production of Thunderbirds because I want to see it made, NOT because I want to "get rich".

I hope the above explains the difference between Homepin and ALL of the others. Not everyone in this world is obsessed by money. My enjoyment comes from electronics and seeing others helped along the way.




 


I'm not being a smart here but most probably ignorant, is there a big market for hankin stuff? Is there a lot of units out in the field?
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Offline elkor-alish

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2013, 01:23:58 PM »
You're not being smart. The "market" for Hankin boards is so small it's ridiculous. If I sell more than a dozen boards TOTAL I will be amazed. My sell price will probably be way below actual cost of production in any case. A perfect example is my Zac MPU. I sell it for around $100 BELOW my cost. Yes, even at $300 sell price I lose $100 every time I sell one. This is the EXACT reason nobody else is making the ZAC MPU.

Homepin (as it was when I started it and as it still is today) is NOT a money making business - it is my hobby - I have tried to make this clear to "certain foreigners" who ONLY do things for money it seems.

I am re-making these Hankin boards (at great cost to me of both time and money) because it will help some who want to restore their machines AND my bonus is I have helped to save some classic machines that otherwise would have been parted out or possibly never had a chance at being restored. I seriously doubt anyone else would have made these boards.

Over the past four years I have tried to look for and make boards that "others" deemed too small a demand or too low profit. My aim has always beeen to HELP the hobby not to stifle it as many others in the pinball "business" seem to aim for!

The R&D on some of my boards would make a lot cringe - even a small motor driver board can cost in excess of $5K to get into (small) production for a return of (gross) $50 a board....if I'm lucky I might sell one a month, if lucky and make $5 "profit"! I have spent in excess of AU$400K in the past 4 years on Homepin for a GROSS return of around $100K. Not very good business sense is it now......

I will extend this "attitude" to the production of Thunderbirds because I want to see it made, NOT because I want to "get rich".

I hope the above explains the difference between Homepin and ALL of the others. Not everyone in this world is obsessed by money. My enjoyment comes from electronics and seeing others helped along the way.

That's pretty awesome Mike.

I think,.......     you're my new hero.  :)
Also, I think you'll sell more of these than you think, Aussies have a soft spot for the Hankins.
I'm sure there are quite a few around the world that will get resurrected because of your boards. ^^^
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Offline pinball god

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2013, 06:57:08 PM »
A very honourable thing you're doing. I was not aware of your commitment to this extent and that's why I asked the question. I did think it wasn't a great commercial decision but then thought maybe there are heaps of Hankins out there that I'm not aware of. I must admit Hankin never enters my mind when thinking pinball  !@)

Great to hear of people like you Mike and am glad I could help you out in the past. Good karma I think
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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Hankin Pinball DRIVER BOARD project started
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2013, 10:00:24 AM »
You're not being smart. The "market" for Hankin boards is so small it's ridiculous. If I sell more than a dozen boards TOTAL I will be amazed. My sell price will probably be way below actual cost of production in any case. A perfect example is my Zac MPU. I sell it for around $100 BELOW my cost. Yes, even at $300 sell price I lose $100 every time I sell one. This is the EXACT reason nobody else is making the ZAC MPU.

Homepin (as it was when I started it and as it still is today) is NOT a money making business - it is my hobby - I have tried to make this clear to "certain foreigners" who ONLY do things for money it seems.

I am re-making these Hankin boards (at great cost to me of both time and money) because it will help some who want to restore their machines AND my bonus is I have helped to save some classic machines that otherwise would have been parted out or possibly never had a chance at being restored. I seriously doubt anyone else would have made these boards.

Over the past four years I have tried to look for and make boards that "others" deemed too small a demand or too low profit. My aim has always been to HELP the hobby not to stifle it as many others in the pinball "business" seem to aim for!

The R&D on some of my boards would make a lot cringe - even a small motor driver board can cost in excess of $5K to get into (small) production for a return of (gross) $50 a board....if I'm lucky I might sell one a month, if lucky and make $5 "profit"! I have spent in excess of AU$400K in the past 4 years on Homepin for a GROSS return of around $100K. Not very good business sense is it now......

I will extend this "attitude" to the production of Thunderbirds because I want to see it made, NOT because I want to "get rich".

I hope the above explains the difference between Homepin and ALL of the others. Not everyone in this world is obsessed by money. My enjoyment comes from electronics and seeing others helped along the way.


That's the impression that I have about your business. You help people, and that's a major component in retaining a good reputation. The willingness to help before profits. A very rare commodity in our industry - but those with a willingness to help are held in high regard.

Just an amazing insight into your business acumen, Mike  ^^^
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