Author Topic: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?  (Read 351 times)

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Offline Pintoxicated

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Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« on: November 04, 2012, 10:49:16 AM »
Seems like all the hype is centered around NIB Stern machines with prices the same if not lower than some of the 'A' list Wms/Bally DMD machines.  Nowhere near as many threads or posts on the Wms machines anymore.  I don't own any of the latest releases from Stern so I can't really comment either way as to what machine is better and/or better value - just making the observation.

Has the love been lost or has everyone just got their fill over the years and have the Wms machines tucked away in their collections?  I spose if I had $6k to spend on a machine I would probably lean towards a brand new machine as opposed to a 10-15+ year old machine.  Has Stern finally stepped up to the plate and got it right?
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Offline Pop Bumper Pete

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2012, 11:12:15 AM »
Most people like to talk about something new


Stern has been bringing out 3 or 4 titles a year for a while now, most have been good machines


In regard to B/W, most people want to talk about the A-listers, but who can afford them

Offline Olivia_jason

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2012, 11:19:50 AM »
Quote
Has Stern finally stepped up to the plate and got it right?

i think most os the discussion about stern is suggesting that isnt the case

Offline Strangeways

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2012, 11:24:13 AM »
Pricing has an effect. Dealers regularly overprice DMDs, and Stern has stepped up to the plate with better quality and pricing. Suddenly, buyers have the option of buying a NIB for the same price as a 20 year old "collectors" title.

I think this will increase Stern's sales. People want "bang for buck", so if a B/W "A" List game is considered, it has to be a good quality machine.

Another point is that traditionally, Dealers target DMDs as the profit margin is high. The older games like SS and EM, are more work for less return. But the DEMAND for older games is very high.

There is more choice for buyers. They can buy New Sterns, High quality DMD, Solid State or EM.
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Offline Caveoftreasures

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2012, 12:17:13 PM »
Stern has got it right with titles like AC/DC and X Men, with Avengers due soon which shld be a cracker as well if Stern have kept up the same design processes.

I have played all the so called A listers from Bally/Williams, and 80 percent are completely over rated, and shld be $6,000 machines tops, not the 8 and 10 grand machines people have been paying to keep up with the Joneses because so and so has A titles and I better make my collection look like a cookie cutter collection to keep up as well style deal.  The problem is, when someone forks out alot of money for a A lister, they will talk the machine up because they have paid so much for it, hence the A title myth is carried on by the recent purchaser. This keeps the prices high.lol   Thats human nature, thats normal with any high priced type item.

Then u look at a brand new AC/DC Pro or X Men Pro, which plays just as good as any of the B/W A listers, then its hard to go with such old B/W machines. With a brand new Stern, you get the latest, you get many years of play without playfield wear, where as older B/W titles, which have cost so much, might start showing wear after all these years of play.   Most of the B/W titles have been redecalled and had new playfields added anyway, so these machines owe people even more crazy money which they will never get back.

Throw LE Stern games into the mix cause of the new releases and collectability, and the B/W titles are starting to now look old hat.
There will always be people looking to buy B/W A listers, but as the next 2 or 3 years passes, expect the B/W titles to keep dropping in price with both Stern and JJP expected to bring out quite a few more excellent games.

At the end of the day, to me , there is no such thing as the right or wrong pin, or the right or wrong amount of money to pay or not to pay, because we all have different tastes and different belief systems when it comes to what something is worth, so whilst most titles rise and fall with various pricing cycles, just buy n play what u want, and dont worry what the next bloke really thinks, cause the opinion, positive or not positive is only that, an opinion. For discussion purposes, we all have opinions, but at the end of the day, it all goes out the window when u press that start button on a game and enjoy a good game on a pinny.
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Offline pinnies4me

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2012, 12:55:23 PM »


No doubt Stern's stocks have increased with the last few very good titles.

Seems that there is way more vocal hype from fans, and as mentioned, new will get discussed more than old as people learn about their games, find new modes etc, and of course, Stern sends out updates etc which creates a lot of attention.

I have played most of the new Sterns and they are a big improvement over the vast majority of their ho-hum releases of the 2000's (with a couple of exceptions like LotR and Simpsons). But I simply have not yet played one which (in my opinion) has the feel and playability of games like AFM, CV, and MM. An hour and a half non-stop on AC/DC revealed a very good game, but it does not have the flow and feel of the best B/W titles (nor the solid feel of Capcoms).

I think because there are some exceptional B/W classics, there might be some other titles that are over-rated just because they are B/W - there were plenty of ho-hum B/W titles - but there were some that set a standard that Stern has still not reached.

For the record I only have one DMD B/W (AFM), so I am a long way off being a "fanboi" although I like a lot of the other titles from the 1990's (just like my SS games a little more - and they are dominated by Gottliebs). I have bought games that play well - whether they are B/W, old Williams, Capcom, Gottlieb. I would buy a LotR for its playability if the artwork wasn't so dreadful (plus theme doesn't do a lot for me).

If I had $6 or $7K to spend on a game today and it was a choice between a new Stern and a classic B/W, I would probably seriously consider a new Stern (avengers interests me), but I suspect I would more likely buy a B/W for the better feel.
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Offline Cow Corner

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2012, 02:02:27 PM »
I prefer the new Sterns for the price they are, plus they have been doing themes that really grab me as well. I love my IM and X-men( both bought nib) and will add Avengers nib to the line up next year as well if it is done right. There is just something really cool about unboxing a new machine and being the first person to ever play it.
Having said that I would really like to grab another wh20,cftbl or Dr Who  again one day but as far as the top line b/w machines and the over inflated price tags that come with them, no thanks.
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Offline pinsanity

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2012, 05:55:25 PM »
At the risk of sounding like a dealer, the supply of quality A list BW titles from overseas has just about dried up. Even a couple of years ago, there would be at least one MB, CV, AFM, MM in one of the container package deals from Europe (along with 3 Lethal Weapons). This is not the case anymore.

US prices of these titles have gone insane thus putting even average condition examples of these machines well out of the reach of most collectors or for those seeking to bring one in from the US to Australia - a restored MM sold for $18,000 at Expo last week (yes it sold).

Eventually the prices and lack of supply forces most people out of the market and they settle for the next best thing.

But the demand is still there I assure you.... ^^^

Offline Cow Corner

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2012, 06:14:41 PM »
18k for a MM is mental $$$, great machine for sure but just plain mental imo.
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Offline Retropin

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2012, 06:38:50 PM »
absolutely.. crazy money, awesome game but waaaaay beyond my budget.
W-Men is a real looker, havent played one yet and didnt get the chance at Pinfest to get on this game, but it does look good must admit.
For me my money is still with the old BW titles... CV is now right up there on the wishlist. Not sure ill ever get one as i just couldnt justify the purchase price on this game either, it would cost me double as id have to give my wife the same amount to do as she wishes.. id get a CV and she'd be off to Europe on a holiday leaving me with the kids... not a good equation!

Offline Pop Bumper Pete

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2012, 06:48:22 PM »
it would cost me double as id have to give my wife the same amount to do as she wishes.. id get a CV and she'd be off to Europe on a holiday leaving me with the kids... not a good equation!

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Offline v8racefan

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2012, 07:12:25 PM »
Stern have stepped up no doubt in the last year, I think the good condition B/W A list games will hold there value going forward. Serious collectors will still pay the $$$$ for titles in good overall condition. I would love to add a AFM or MB one day if I win lotto  ^^^
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Offline Cow Corner

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2012, 07:28:17 PM »
absolutely.. crazy money, awesome game but waaaaay beyond my budget.
W-Men is a real looker, havent played one yet and didnt get the chance at Pinfest to get on this game, but it does look good must admit.
For me my money is still with the old BW titles... CV is now right up there on the wishlist. Not sure ill ever get one as i just couldnt justify the purchase price on this game either, it would cost me double as id have to give my wife the same amount to do as she wishes.. id get a CV and she'd be off to Europe on a holiday leaving me with the kids... not a good equation!

You can play W-MEN here Gav..... lol.... as soon as I get the new mod to change it to W-MEN, along with IM and CFTBL in the next couple of weeks when it arrives.
Good excuse to drink beer!
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Offline Retropin

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2012, 07:38:52 PM »
absolutely.. crazy money, awesome game but waaaaay beyond my budget.
W-Men is a real looker, havent played one yet and didnt get the chance at Pinfest to get on this game, but it does look good must admit.
For me my money is still with the old BW titles... CV is now right up there on the wishlist. Not sure ill ever get one as i just couldnt justify the purchase price on this game either, it would cost me double as id have to give my wife the same amount to do as she wishes.. id get a CV and she'd be off to Europe on a holiday leaving me with the kids... not a good equation!

You can play W-MEN here Gav..... lol.... as soon as I get the new mod to change it to W-MEN, along with IM and CFTBL in the next couple of weeks when it arrives.
Good excuse to drink beer!


Pretty good line up there Daz.. keep meaning to come over for a beer and a silver ball bash, but each time we arrange it something comes up and im double booked. Been indulging myself this weekend on the pins... 4hrs today trouble shooting an EM only to end up back where i started  @.@

Offline Cow Corner

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Re: Has The love Been Lost For Wms/Bally Machines?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2012, 07:45:53 PM »
absolutely.. crazy money, awesome game but waaaaay beyond my budget.
W-Men is a real looker, havent played one yet and didnt get the chance at Pinfest to get on this game, but it does look good must admit.
For me my money is still with the old BW titles... CV is now right up there on the wishlist. Not sure ill ever get one as i just couldnt justify the purchase price on this game either, it would cost me double as id have to give my wife the same amount to do as she wishes.. id get a CV and she'd be off to Europe on a holiday leaving me with the kids... not a good equation!

You can play W-MEN here Gav..... lol.... as soon as I get the new mod to change it to W-MEN, along with IM and CFTBL in the next couple of weeks when it arrives.
Good excuse to drink beer!


Pretty good line up there Daz.. keep meaning to come over for a beer and a silver ball bash, but each time we arrange it something comes up and im double booked. Been indulging myself this weekend on the pins... 4hrs today trouble shooting an EM only to end up back where i started  @.@


Your always welcome mate...... bbq, beers and pins, you can't get much better than that!
I should have a little bbq pin day soon anyway, good weather for it.
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