Why?

[ktm450]

So basically there can be no true unlicenced themed game as everything has been coved in movies or books ?

I am trying to work out what my fish tales was based on, so many movies with fishing in them

I cant remember too many films with whitewater rafting in them either??

Funhouse?
Roadshow?
Whirlwind?
Junkyard?

Plenty more...

Total rubbish

[joele]

I cant remember too many films with whitewater rafting in them either??

Funhouse?
Roadshow?
Whirlwind?
Junkyard?

Plenty more...

Total rubbish

Turns out he just meant they were the minority, fair enough I guess, I misunderstood where that was going too..

Point is there were some good games not of movie themes, which gets us back to them just being unimaginative these days..

[ktm450]

Minority??? 

High Speed 2
Circus Voltare
Championship Pub
Theatre of magic
Pinball Magic
Big Bang Bar
Whirlwind (long before the movie twister)
Bride of pinbot
Diner
Breakshot
Party Zone
Dr. Dude
Hurricane
Wipe out
Cactus Jacks

These are all 90s pins, the list goes on...

[Caveoftreasures]

yeh, the list does go on, so how about now listing all the movie themes from all the manufacturers as well.
you only chose to list the minority of dmd games from out of the hundreds thru-out the 90's.

as u said, i feel the same, its total rubbish.

[dendoc]

I want to see a movie based on a pinball game, that'll stuff em.

(TOmmy doesn't count, that song was just added because the London Times reviewer who saw the rehersal of the stage production didn't really like the show, so the band knew he was a pinball addict, and told them they would be adding a whole sequence about pinball so they could get a good review)

[ktm450]

yeh, the list does go on, so how about now listing all the movie themes from all the manufacturers as well.
you only chose to list the minority of dmd games from out of the hundreds thru-out the 90's.

as u said, i feel the same, its total rubbish.

No doubt there were plenty of licenced themes in 90s pinball. What we are debating is that your suggestion that NO pin is original because at some point in time, there may have been a book written or a movie involving the theme used 

[Caveoftreasures]

I never said every single pinball theme was taken from TV or Movies. The point i was making that the title doesnt have to be licenced or a specific movie title for it to have some input from a movie or Tv type show.

Wouldnt it be nice for a change where people joined in a debate to debate the topic, rather than seizing upon every supposed incorrect word/sentence, or invented slip up to make disparaging comments to another member.

I dont think I would ever be so bold or disrespectful to tell someone that something they said was complete rubbish etc. A liitle bit of politeness on here goes along way IMO.

[Retropin]

OK.. lets see some figures,

Licenced themes across 3 manufacturers in the 90's only. Manufacturers are BallyMidway...Williams... Gottlieb.

BALLYMIDWAY - 67142 LICENCED THEME SALES.......56840 NON LICENCED

WILLIAMS - 68774 LICENCED THEME SALES.........113019 NON LICENCED

GOTTLIEB - 14980 LICENCED THEME SALES....... 44600 NON LICENCED


For all 3 manufacturers totals are:

LICENCED ; 150896

NON LICENCED; 214459

Which makes non licenced themes outselling licenced by 63563.

I have not included redemption/ flipperless games in any totals and numbers are strictly from 1990 onwards which ignores titles like F14Tomcat which had great sales of 14502

But then again, they did make a crap film about pinball once so i guess they are all licenced eh?

[Caveoftreasures]

We are talking about 2 different topics.

Firstly It was a measurement of titles, not overall game numbers. The way I calculated it first, it wasnt on total machine sales, but on how many titles were movie based or licenced versus unlicensed titles. Thus the majority of 1990's titles were movie based. My figures then suggested the overall numbers were still higher for movie/licenced themes overall. Respectfully, I dont agree with those figures.

For me to use/consider those figures u have supplied, so I could check the data, I would want to see every single machine from every single manufacturer listed with its total beside it etc so i could then check the numbers. I did it already for Bally, Williams, Stern, Sega, Data East etc, and my figures are the opposite.

Can u list every title and its sales numbers next to it to show how u came to those figures ? 

[Retropin]

We are talking about 2 different topics.

Firstly It was a measurement of titles, not overall game numbers. The way I calculated it first, it wasnt on total machine sales, but on how many titles were movie based or licenced versus unlicensed titles. Thus the majority of 1990's titles were movie based. My figures then suggested the overall numbers were still higher for movie/licenced themes overall. Respectfully, I dont agree with those figures.

For me to use/consider those figures u have supplied, so I could check the data, I would want to see every single machine from every single manufacturer listed with its total beside it etc so i could then check the numbers. I did it already for Bally, Williams, Stern, Sega, Data East etc, and my figures are the opposite.

Can u list every title and its sales numbers next to it to show how u came to those figures ? 

Be serious!  Its on IPDB.. why dont you list all titles with numbers next to them as a reply. If youve done it already, then scan it it or paste it... less work on your part.

But.. i will add to my previous post that if i pick at the numbers a bit further, then licenced themes made up 31% of total production but accounted for 41% of sales, so unless im wrong, licenced themes faired roughly 10% better than non licenced. Some titles though there are no production numbers for... Party Zone is one.

According to your good self and with much respect Brett, you have already stated that games like MM are movie based as films like Robin Hood have been made before it.. with that information to hand, your numbers would be nonsense to anyone but yourself.

[Caveoftreasures]

These days, i like to use the same wording in my replies that people have afforded me.

Be serious. If u supply specific manufacturer numbers, u have to be able to back them up. Its fair if someone asks for the breakdown to support the claims.

As u know, I have done all the individual lists myself for all of the manufacturers for the 1990's and listed them on the forum already.

Games are influenced by movies and TV programs and books. The designer of MM was in his twenties when he designed that game.Where did his knowledge of castles and all that medi-evil stuff come from if not from movies, TV shows or Books ? It didnt just get telepathically sent into his brain from nowhere did it !
 
Numbers are only nonsense when u dont have the data to support them. End of debate from my point of view.  

[RottyGuy]

Personally I like movie based pins, so no complaints from me with the current manufacturers. 
Music based are my other pick, so with talk of a Metallica pin, I'm all smiles.

[Retropin]

These days, i like to use the same wording in my replies that people have afforded me.

Be serious. If u supply specific manufacturer numbers, u have to be able to back them up. Its fair if someone asks for the breakdown to support the claims.

As u know, I have done all the individual lists myself for all of the manufacturers for the 1990's and listed them on the forum already.

Games are influenced by movies and TV programs and books. The designer of MM was in his twenties when he designed that game.Where did his knowledge of castles and all that medi-evil stuff come from if not from movies, TV shows or Books ? It didnt just get telepathically sent into his brain from nowhere did it !
 
Numbers are only nonsense when u dont have the data to support them. End of debate from my point of view.  

LOL- no need to take the ball and run Brett.. my figures showed that licence did sell better by around 10% going by title. If i add DE then we get 43% of titles and 52% of sales.. slightly lower but still around the 10% mark.
I cant find figures for Sega who again like DE only did licence themes.. perhaps if you can supply them ( i cant find your posting) then ill add them to the % total.

Games are influenced by movies and TV programs and books. The designer of MM was in his twenties when he designed that game.Where did his knowledge of castles and all that medi-evil stuff come from if not from movies, TV shows or Books ? It didnt just get telepathically sent into his brain from nowhere did it !

Maybe he did history at school? I know i did and learnt all about castles, middle ages, crusades, armour etc

[Pop Bumper Pete]

[size=8]I LIKE PINBALL[/size]

I do not really care if a game is bassed on a film, book, band or mythology

I dislike how all Sterns look the same!
I look at Spiderman, and I look at Tron, to me they look like they rolled off the assembly line during the same year

[Caveoftreasures]

Maybe he did history at school? I know i did and learnt all about castles, middle ages, crusades, armour etc
 

and that would still be from a book, a projector movie etc....