Another moral dilemma question.

[pinsanity]

Just something that I have been thinking about lately. Perhaps I have been watching too many episodes of, "Can of Worms".  

THE SCENARIO:

You are a "backyarder" and you sell a pinball machine that was advertised as 100% fully working. At some point, the machine develops a fault (as they usually do) in some way and the buyer requests that it be repaired at your cost.

At what point, does this obligation as a seller end?

NOTE: This differs from providing advice for the buyer if the machine develops a fault (which typically involves no financial outlay on your part).

Everyone has different expectations, and there is no right or wrong answer.


This is a "blind" poll - no one can see what you voted for.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

My obligations end when it is loaded in his trailer
I have no control on how the new owner then traes the game

I have sold him a wooden box full of 15-40 year old electronics,
if there is a fault, it aint my problem to fix

f**k 'em

[Ballywannabe]

I usually sell with a stated 1 month warranty - if I have fixed it properly it should not be a problem!

[swinks]

I haven't sold many machines (3 in total), but I have always been 100% honest from the very beginning with detailing the goods and bads of a machine. I then encourage them to have a few games on pickup but once they take the machine and it goes on it's bumpy ride some where to it's new home then it's up to the new owner - just the nature of a static machine going for a bumpy ride. I did have to offer some advice / help once but unless your selling a new machine or a high end restore I think it really falls on to the new owner.

I bought a machine from a dealer in Qld once and it had a few problems on power up, in which I didn't demand free fixing but was hoping for advice - my luck was that I got both but wasn't expecting both.

So I reckon good advice is invaluable, just state everything up front.

[Freiherr]

My obligations end when it is loaded in his trailer
I have no control on how the new owner then traes the game

I have sold him a wooden box full of 15-40 year old electronics,
if there is a fault, it aint my problem to fix

f**k 'em

+1

Same as privately selling a used car.

[Caveoftreasures]

It depends on what u specifically promised the buyer when u sold the machine.
Everyone who sells a machine usually provides a warranty or some sort of repair promise etc. If not, then a no warranty scenairio is stated.

Either way, if sellers stick to what they have promised when a machine is sold, then there is no hassle. If the machine is sold without warranty, then thats also easy to handle.

If its not talked about at all (a warranty is not offered or even mentioned during the sale and or purchase by either party) then a seller would pick a period which is best suited to keep his name in good standing. A warranty should only be offered on brand new pinballs OR only on a fully restored machine which is shipped by a interstate truck company and not bounced to buggery in a 4 ft trailer over a 12 or 20 hour period. And that warranty should only be offered if u have somebody u know in that persons locality who can offer full servicing, otherwise none should be given.

Alot of people start playing with things and think they are experts and stuff things up. For this reason alone, warrantys should be very given sparingly, if at all, and only for the specific reasons (BNIB or fully restored) as mentioned above.
Anyone else agree ? lol

[pinnies4me]

Keeping on topic, as a "backyarder" I find it really difficult to sell games as I worry about things going wrong - sure, a sale is a sale and without an explicit warranty I have no responsibility provided it was not misrepresented. But it bothers me if something does go wrong early on.

Personally, I would assist with phone/email queries for any reasonable period for general stuff (depending on the buyers expertise), and perhaps if local offer some help if a fault develops within a week or so (but probably not much longer particularly as it will probably have the sh!t played out of it in that first week if a newbie). Where to draw the line can be hard, but at some point you need to roll out the "I think you need someone with expertise now" and refer them to someone who can professionally help.

[pinball god]

No warranty as that's what came with them when I bought them. No one can guaranty me breathing tomorrow not even my doctor so if you want a warranty either buy new or buy from someone who has margins on it to cover these risks.

Plus I'm not good enough in the hobby to feel that confident to offer assuraties.

Btw I never have sold a pinball

[goodolddays]

All bets are off once it leaves my place.
I am a hobbyist not a business and plus how can you give a warranty on something thats 20 , 30 or more years old that was designed to last for 5 yrs?
Having said that I have made a house call twice .
Once when I sold a game to a couple in their 50's who were buying their 1st pin , when it had a fault  a couple of weeks after I sold it.
The other when a pin I sold turned up DOA at the other end of the trip from my place . Luckily both pins were close by.

[delarge]

I once sold a machine that I had worked on for 12 months and got every feature working. Had friends play it on a regular basis and was sure it was ready for sale. I knew the touchy nature of pinball machines, so I wanted it to work for another 20 years.

Delivered it to the person's house and they played it for a week and then a fuse kept blowing. I thought I had sorted that problem out, but then I decided to replace a switch and a coil to be safe (at my expense). It was at this point that the buyer got cranky with me and started questioning my honesty which really rubbed me the wrong way. I went over to their house, made sure everything was installed and working and haven't heard from them since.

This was a good learning experience, although it made me question selling pinball machines for a while. Despite no warranty being given on a machine, I'd still help someone out if something went wrong within a week of them taking ownership. I have bought countless machines from interstate and I can't remember a single one that hasn't needed some kind of fixing/tinkering to get it going (be it the insides moving around in transit, or other issues). I know what comes with the territory, but it's hard explaining this to a first time owner. Next time, I will explain this more to a first time buyer and make sure they're 100% certain they're ready to own a 20 year old machine that is full of wires and boards. You can't be responsible for every switch and solenoid in something that old. It's just not possible.

[goodolddays]

I have bought countless machines from interstate and I can't remember a single one that hasn't needed some kind of fixing/tinkering to get it going (be it the insides moving around in transit, or other issues). I know what comes with the territory, but it's hard explaining this to a first time owner. Next time, I will explain this more to a first time buyer and make sure they're 100% certain they're ready to own a 20 year old machine that is full of wires and boards. You can't be responsible for every switch and solenoid in something that old. It's just not possible.

In fact I have just negotiated a sale of one of my EM's to a guy in Brisbane who want to come down to Sydney and pick it up. This will be his first pin so I will do my best to show him the concept of how the machine works when he collects it because I really doubt its going to fire up problem free when he gets it back home . This will be my 1st interstate sale so I am a bit concerned. Game was a favorite of his youth .

Hell, I moved one of my EM's out to my back garage a few months ago to store it after it had been fully working (I've given it a full overhaul and debugged all faults) . I set it up the other week and no GI at all (will be an easy fix when you know what your looking for )

[goodolddays]

I have bought countless machines from interstate and I can't remember a single one that hasn't needed some kind of fixing/tinkering to get it going (be it the insides moving around in transit, or other issues). I know what comes with the territory, but it's hard explaining this to a first time owner. Next time, I will explain this more to a first time buyer and make sure they're 100% certain they're ready to own a 20 year old machine that is full of wires and boards. You can't be responsible for every switch and solenoid in something that old. It's just not possible.

In fact I have just negotiated a sale of one of my EM's to a guy in Brisbane who wants to drive  down to Sydney and pick it up. This will be his first pin so I will do my best to show him the concept of how the machine works when he collects it because I really doubt its going to fire up problem free when he gets it back home . Its working perfectly now and has had a full mechanical overhaul.
This will be my 1st interstate sale so I am a bit concerned. Game was a favorite of his youth .

Hell, I moved one of my EM's out to my back garage a few months ago to store it after it had been fully working (full overhaul and debugged all faults) . I set it up the other week and no GI at all (will be an easy fix when you know what your looking for )

[Retropin]

I have bought countless machines from interstate and I can't remember a single one that hasn't needed some kind of fixing/tinkering to get it going (be it the insides moving around in transit, or other issues). I know what comes with the territory, but it's hard explaining this to a first time owner. Next time, I will explain this more to a first time buyer and make sure they're 100% certain they're ready to own a 20 year old machine that is full of wires and boards. You can't be responsible for every switch and solenoid in something that old. It's just not possible.

In fact I have just negotiated a sale of one of my EM's to a guy in Brisbane who wants to drive  down to Sydney and pick it up. This will be his first pin so I will do my best to show him the concept of how the machine works when he collects it because I really doubt its going to fire up problem free when he gets it back home . Its working perfectly now and has had a full mechanical overhaul.
This will be my 1st interstate sale so I am a bit concerned. Game was a favorite of his youth .

Hell, I moved one of my EM's out to my back garage a few months ago to store it after it had been fully working (full overhaul and debugged all faults) . I set it up the other week and no GI at all (will be an easy fix when you know what your looking for )

Whereabouts in Brisbane? North or south?... if any problems ill be happy to help out and some friendly chat, beer or cup of tea gets most things sorted.

[robm]

Ive sold a number of my machines over the years locally, and always tell the buyer (unless they are a complete nob with a bad attitude) that if anythigns happens over the next 3 months i'm more than happy to drop over to their place and show them how to repair - i've also stated that if its a board problem (or DMD dies - unlikely) i'll do my best to fix it for the cost of parts (normally only a few $$$) but may have to send it away, in which case they will bear the cost.

I'm not a really good selller, as i always try to highlight the bad parts of the machine....

The only time i walked away from a repair from one i had sold was a shady character who wasn't around when i started the repair (his machine was in an outside bar area), and i discovered a sock with a bag inside with 'salt' (according to him!), it looked white and powdery, but i don't think it was salt....

[Strangeways]

As a hobbyist or a collector - Once the machine leaves your possession, then all bets are off. The buyer is on his own. Exactly the same as a car.

As a Business - I think it is good business practice to offer or state a warranty on the machine for between 1 month to 3 months. As a hobbyist, collector and business, I always offered support over the phone if any issues occurred. I've never had any major issues except related to transport. Once it leaves my place, I only "hope" the games don't get mistreated or handled badly.

Dealers / sellers can minimize warranty issues if the machines are reconditioned properly. But the games are usually over 20 years old, so this must be kept in mind.