Thanks for the welcome - much appreciated. The Shadow is looking hard to find in decent condition. What else do people suggest - I know TZ, ToM, CV etc rate highly but the $ are just silly $7k(ish). Whitewater looks interesting & a bit more affordable - any good reports on this as a fun 1st machine? The other runner is acdc premium which can be had new or near new for similar $ as a very good tz - but such mixed reviews. I've played it - liked it - but just not sure how long the fun factor would last with it (& not a metallica fan so that's ruled out no matter how good it is). Cheers for any opinions!