LEDs are sweet

[Extra Ball]

I have been doing a lot of research regarding leds. I have a funny feeling that the home market will be nearly 90% led in the next couple of years. Their is a planned roll out of halogens in the future
During my research i sourced the company that supplies to cointaker and the single leds(normal / wide) can be had for around the $40 mark per 100.
Their are other products like the multi led that will cost more(I posted on another forum that i could get leds for around the $70 mark per 100)This covered the cost of every line from the 4+1hp led products to the single leds.
I have samples coming in from another company that offers a 3 yr warranty on these pinball leds (i thought this was amazing) The price point is very similar. Except that different colours are more expensive
The company that supplies to cointaker offers 12 months warranty on these pinball leds.

I'd say wait a couple of weeks if you can, it could work out a but cheaper in the long run.

I dug around myself, and couldnt find cheaper than cointaker. I sent you a message on the other side.

[MrMaloo]

Looks great Greg .

I might have to post some pics of my Star Wars fully kitted out once I get it back together ( got it apart for a good clean) .

[beaky]

I have been doing a lot of research regarding leds. I have a funny feeling that the home market will be nearly 90% led in the next couple of years. Their is a planned roll out of halogens in the future
During my research i sourced the company that supplies to cointaker and the single leds(normal / wide) can be had for around the $40 mark per 100.
Their are other products like the multi led that will cost more(I posted on another forum that i could get leds for around the $70 mark per 100)This covered the cost of every line from the 4+1hp led products to the single leds.
I have samples coming in from another company that offers a 3 yr warranty on these pinball leds (i thought this was amazing) The price point is very similar. Except that different colours are more expensive
The company that supplies to cointaker offers 12 months warranty on these pinball leds.

I'd say wait a couple of weeks if you can, it could work out a but cheaper in the long run.

I remember back in 2000 - 2001 when ultra bright leds started becoming readily available at a reasonable price the company i was working for started to sell garden and decretive lights with leds instead of incandecent and halogen bulbs. The amount that companies and people where buying was unbelievable.
I was head of design and manufacturing led products and i told the managing director of the company to approach Brisbane city council and the department of transport about supplying led fittings for traffic lights because at that stage there where no led traffic lights in Queensland. And I also suggested to make a line of led  truck & trailer lights, his reply was " there would not be enough demand to warrant the research & development of these items". BIG MISTAKE, how many trucks and comercial hire trailers do you see with led lights all over them? and about 75% of existing traffic lights and all new traffic lights that are installed in QLD are led. I told him that leds are the way of the future, he didn't believe me.

[Retropin]

Well the truck and car lights are spot on - a steady 12V supply from a battery giving dead smooth 12VDC

The traffic lights on the other hand have proved to be a maintenance nightmare and more unreliable than the old incandescent bulbs.. they were from what i gather changed over as incandescent blew as they know the technology will get better.
I import LED downlights - compared to halogen these are bloody great - can run 8 off  3 X 2W LED from one 50W supply compared to one 50W halogen.
6W of LED can give the equivalent light output of just under 1 X 50W halogen - interestingly enough though 3X 2W LED pulls LESS current than a single 5W LED. In other words the extent that LED can go is a non linear equation.

LED;s are bloody great and will take over from incandescent... however they are not THE most energy efficient form of light - this still after over 100 years of steady service remains firmly in the pocket of neon, which is 3X more efficient than LED given the same power supply - if using standard iron core transformers then LED JUST beats neon for linear length, but not on light output.

Remember that LED is only 90% efficient once you have a steady 12V DC supply - you have to convert mains AC to 12V DC first and this is where BIG inefficiencies lie...

But for incandescent.. LED is the future by a long mile

[Extra Ball]

I love neon, and allways thought it was very power hungry.

[Retropin]

I love neon, and allways thought it was very power hungry.

And there my friend is the myth - i have heard stories from customers told to them by LED salesmen that neon runs so hot that the aircon in the shopping centres is on full blast.. LED will aleviate this.
heres the facts..

LED requires 12v or 24V DC supply dependant on the number of LED in series. LED MUST have a steady current or you will kill it.... LED is supposed to last 100.000hrs continuous use... in the field 4 - 6 months is typical.

LEd is available with constant current supply - it is very expensive and still not reliable.

The most efficient power supply that i have in my shop for LED draws 1.4A @ 240V and supplies 180W @12V ( 15A).. this will load at 80% and will therefore give a linear length of white LED of 13M tops.

With an iron core transformer - once again loaded to 80% i can supply 13M of white neon with a current input of 1.23A @ 240v.. but to add the light output of neon is 1.5 of that of LED. Already a saving of  40.8W but with 1.5 times the punch

Now if i run my neon with an electronic power supply the same technology that runs LED then for 1.4A i can run a whopping 66M of neon.

neon has been around for over 100 years simply because it has the most punch for dollar - always has been.

Difference is that LED is 12V @ 15A - input 1,4A

Neon is 10,000V @ 30mA input 1.23A Iron core..... 0.4A electronic


 Neon High voltage - low current

LED Low voltage - high current.

Oh and just to add neon will outlast ANY LED.. i always give 2 years unconditional guarantee against failure.. last time i spoke to my LED supplier who supplies GE type ( considered the best with CREE chip) his returns after 5 years still remain at around 60%... mine after 5 years are ZERO and i mean ZERO!

[Extra Ball]

How good would neon pinball bulbs look, but that's not possible huh.

[beaky]

I love neon, and allways thought it was very power hungry.

And there my friend is the myth - i have heard stories from customers told to them by LED salesmen that neon runs so hot that the aircon in the shopping centres is on full blast.. LED will aleviate this.
heres the facts..

LED requires 12v or 24V DC supply dependant on the number of LED in series. LED MUST have a steady current or you will kill it.... LED is supposed to last 100.000hrs continuous use... in the field 4 - 6 months is typical.

LEd is available with constant current supply - it is very expensive and still not reliable.

The most efficient power supply that i have in my shop for LED draws 1.4A @ 240V and supplies 180W @12V ( 15A).. this will load at 80% and will therefore give a linear length of white LED of 13M tops.

With an iron core transformer - once again loaded to 80% i can supply 13M of white neon with a current input of 1.23A @ 240v.. but to add the light output of neon is 1.5 of that of LED. Already a saving of  40.8W but with 1.5 times the punch

Now if i run my neon with an electronic power supply the same technology that runs LED then for 1.4A i can run a whopping 66M of neon.

neon has been around for over 100 years simply because it has the most punch for dollar - always has been.

Difference is that LED is 12V @ 15A - input 1,4A

Neon is 10,000V @ 30mA input 1.23A Iron core..... 0.4A electronic


 Neon High voltage - low current

LED Low voltage - high current.

Oh and just to add neon will outlast ANY LED.. i always give 2 years unconditional guarantee against failure.. last time i spoke to my LED supplier who supplies GE type ( considered the best with CREE chip) his returns after 5 years still remain at around 60%... mine after 5 years are ZERO and i mean ZERO!

I have found if you run leds on a long run of cable( i.e. your power supply is 10 or 15 meteres away from leds) then you have problems with inductance or power serges, especialy if the cable runs along metal. a way to get around this is 1st use a tranzorb and second use a switch mode regulated power supply that brings the current up slowly,(when i say slowly it means still fast enough that the leds look like they are instantly on but if you look at it on a crow then you can see that it rises in a linier fashon).
when i was designing led fittings and power supplies to suit i found a switch mode voltage regulator that did just this and after we started using these regulators and tranzorbs in our control gear and fitting the amount of warranty returns dropped from 30% down to 1%.
i still have the schematic for this power supply.
Another advantage with the said power supply is it would supply 5.5 amps continuously and the output could be shorted indefinitely with out the power supply overheating, also when the short or excess load was removed the power supply would work again without pressing a reset button.

[Marty Machine]

With the LEDs being WHITE, you'll notice more purer colours of your plastics, as opposed to the typical YELLOW (warm) light from bulbs.

Also to note, in machines where GI lamps are DIMMED, the LEDs will stay constantly BRIGHT until the dimming voltage is low enough for the LED to turn OFF, so you'll lose your Dimming effects, it'll become more of a blink effect.
These ultra-bright LEDs are VERY efficient, and you really need to pulse-width control them for dimming effects.

Also beware of LED focal point, narrow beams versus wide beam, this may affect the mounting distance under the Playfield, otherwise you get a whole bunch of hot dots, instead of nicely illuminated plastics.
Some LEDs may even require a softening filter between the LED and the plastic. using something as simple as tracing paper (oven baking paper) will do...time to experiment.


Something to consider, depending on what machine you fit LEDs into....

my 2 cents....
MM.

[Extra Ball]

I have had good results rubbing sandpaper over LEDs. Seems to disperse light, somewhat softer and wider.

[Marty Machine]

I have had good results rubbing sandpaper over LEDs. Seems to disperse light, somewhat softer and wider.

Nice and simple...

I've seen some equipment (not pinball) simply with a blob of silicon on the end of the LED, enough to soften the glow without dulling it down.

MM.

[daics3522]

Got my LED's today so I could finish the 30 odd globes that needed to be replaced with LED's in the Fishtales.. What an ORSM change...
Check out the difference... Warning, the footage is taken from my mobile so hopefully its OK.............