Author Topic: Cyclone CPU board repair  (Read 404 times)

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Offline Steevsee

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Cyclone CPU board repair
« on: November 22, 2010, 01:05:27 PM »
Been slowly working on this System 11b game awhile now.  Originally purchased with known issues.  http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=5119.0
I was looking for a bit of a challenge and to learn more about pinball repair and this machine was just what I was after.
Just want to say that I was made fully aware of all the issues by the seller and had no nasty surprises when this machine arrived. ^^^

Anyway, a breif summary of the major problem.
At powerup Cpu would boot and machine would go into attract mode but the score displays would usually show only some of the digits.
Also Cpu controlled lamps were very dim and most not working at all.  When I started a game, the A/C relay in the backbox would buzz continuously as it tried to switch, and any coils that did work were very underpowered. No flippers/Pops at all.  If I left the power on for awhile, it would usually warm up and the displays would gradually get more digits showing and the lights got a bit brighter.  By waiting until all the displays were working you could start and play a game.

I guess my biggest problem was to identify where the problem actually was. You've got the Cpu board, power supply board and the auxillary power board, Hmm !@#
I initially attacked the Power supply board as I figured good input voltage is a good place to start - rebuilt the high voltage section and installed new header pins and connectors which didn't really make any difference.  Also found and replaced a bad diode on the Aux Power board as well as replacing the A/C relay. Still no luck.
What I really needed was another system 11 game to swap the boards. This is where the CPU tester was a great help as I could narrow the problem down to the Cpu board.

On the Cpu board, I noticed the blanking LED was also very dim.  Used Leon's test rom to test all PIAs which all tested good.  Also noticed by shorting pins 5 and 6 on the 555 timer chip, the blanking led became bright as well as several more CPU controlled lights were activated. Started to suspect the blanking circuit. Replaced U43 (555 timer) and Q50 (2N4403 transistor). No difference.
Several hours research later I also replaced C58 (1uf tantalum in the blanking circuit) and the system came to life. Wow!
I have used a standard electro cap that I already had here, but have ordered the correct part from GPE and will replace this when it arrives.

I had to put the board back into the game just to try it out.  Displays now bright and clear except for player one which is slightly dim.
Game now starts and plays well and I have to say that I am very pleased with myself. #*#

Still have a few problems to sort - Only 3 out of 8 lamp columns are working and some switch problems as well but now that the board boots properly, I should be able to use the Cpu tester to find/fix these, hopefully without too many problems.

Hard to believe that less than a dollars worth of parts, and particularly that little capacitor, could cause so much chaos.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 10:59:34 AM by Steevsee »

Offline Retropin

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 01:38:02 PM »
Good stuff!!

If i jave a non working or semi working board with tantalums.. they are pretty much my first port of call.
 Tantalums are not as reliable as your electrolytic... id be keeping the electro in place and leaving tanty out

Offline robm

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 02:07:22 PM »
Awesome stuff Steve, glad you nailed it.

By your explanation it was past my skill level to get going.

Does this mean that as the cap was stuffed, there was no residual charge, and it needed to 'charge up' by being on for a while?  (My electronics knowledge is not fantastic, so i try and take a logical approach to it...)

Offline Mr Pinbologist

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010, 02:40:25 PM »
Good stuff!!

If i jave a non working or semi working board with tantalums.. they are pretty much my first port of call.
 Tantalums are not as reliable as your electrolytic... id be keeping the electro in place and leaving tanty out

I agree.. leave the electro in circuit. Tantalum caps, as Gavin said are unreliable things, i have replaced hundreds of them over the years in all kinds of electronic equipment.. usually they short out!

Offline ddstoys

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010, 02:48:33 PM »
Great work Steve

Offline Steevsee

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2010, 03:11:31 PM »
Awesome stuff Steve, glad you nailed it.

By your explanation it was past my skill level to get going.

Does this mean that as the cap was stuffed, there was no residual charge, and it needed to 'charge up' by being on for a while?  (My electronics knowledge is not fantastic, so i try and take a logical approach to it...)

Thanks Rob.

I was thinking capacitor right near the start due to the "warm up" factor, but thought it would be a big cap, maybe on the power supply.
Never dreamed it would be such a small one on the CPU board. (To be honest, I didn't even know these small components were capacitors to begin with)

The transistor did actually test bad and probably also ruined the cap which was pulling the voltage down. 

Offline Steevsee

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2010, 09:20:59 PM »
Just replaced five driver and pre-driver tansistors and now all lamps work. #*# #*#

The tester was a great help as I could see the pulses on the the outputs of the 7408 ICs (U52 and U53)
Even though the transistors tested ok with multimeter, they were obviously failing under load.
Lamp test board lights up like a christmas tree now.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 09:25:05 PM by Steevsee »

Offline ajlaird

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2010, 10:32:44 PM »
Good stuff, looks like that CPU tester is going to be pretty handy!

Offline johnwartjr

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2010, 04:58:01 PM »
Thanks for sharing your experience. I need one of those Cheung CPU testers!

Offline Strangeways

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2010, 10:13:49 PM »

Looks to be worth every cent - and you in turn are supporting a hobbyist who has put a fair bit of time and effort to develop this test fixture.
Aussie Pinball - Proud to be Australia's Premier Pinball Forum

http://www.australianpinballrestorations.com.au/

http://www.rtbb.com.au/catalog/

We carry the largest range of NEW Ramps in Australia

Offline Steevsee

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2010, 11:38:38 PM »
The Cpu tester has been a very useful tool for me to use on this repair and I've certainly learnt alot so far.

One thing I learnt today was that just because all the lamp drivers are working, doesn't mean that all the lamps will work but at least I knew that the remaining problems were somewhere other than the CPU/driver board. 

Anyway I still had 12 lamps out of 64 not working. 
One was just a blown bulb, one needed a new diode on the lamp board and one whole column was also out but came on after I wiggled the CPU connector.
Only two more to get working now. Looks so much better all lit up.

Also replaced a TIP36c on the Auxillary power board today as the knocker coil was disconnected due to being locked on . Now reconnected and working fine.

Still have to tackle the mystery wheel as the opto switch has failed.

Have been enjoying playing a few games but unfortunately just a little while ago, the coilstop on my right flipper self destructed, so I need to order another and repalce that as well.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 11:03:50 AM by Steevsee »

Offline Steevsee

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Re: Cyclone CPU board repair
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2010, 12:14:09 PM »
I finally got all the lamps working but now I am having a strange problem with my "5 x" lamp.
During attract mode, and in lamp test mode, all lamps display at the appropriate times but as soon as I start a game, the "5 x" lamp starts flashing.  *!@
I thought this must be a short somewhere, but the fact that it works fine in attract/test mode makes me wonder. !@#

Anyone come across this problem before?  @@^

Edit: Nevermind.  I just had a look on visual pinball and it looks like the "5x" is meant to flash. &^&
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, 01:46:23 PM by Steevsee »