New Pinball Machine Sales

[Pintoxicated]

With recent sales of NIB machines increasing it seems as though new manufacturers are jumping on the band wagon.  Now though it appears the price of NIB machines is steadily increasing, whether it be due to the lower Aussie dollar although it has risen again and we haven't yet seen a drop in prices.  How many of you guys are planning on buying NIB machines in the future?

Is it a case of greed in that the manufacturers are just trying to cash in on the current hype or is the jump in price justified? 

Should the manufacturers be looking closer as to why NIB sales increased i.e. pretty good machines at a reasonable price e.g. AC/DC Pro machines?

I am getting the impression that more guys are now holding off buying a NIB machine due to the increase in cost and will wait for a nice HUO only 2nd hand machine down the track.  I am fearful that we will see a decline in NIB sales purely due to the price increases.  We had NIB AC/DC Pro machines under $6k, now we seem to have jumped to $8-10k for other machines.  Surely it would be better to sell more machines at a lower margin that only a few machines at the increased price?  The more machines out there, the greater the possibility of getting new guys into the hobby or more machines out on site.

What do you think?

[Pop Bumper Pete]

A pinball machine is a toy , a very expensive toy

For me, iI cannot justify spending $10,000+ on a toy

NIB was OK at $6000
But spending more and hoping that the software will be completed is silly

[Strangeways]

New In Box pricing is too high for me to ever buy a new machine unless the theme was very good. Taking the AC/DC as an example, these are already appearing on container lists and some have wear areas in front of the drop targets. This is after 1-2 years of operation. Says a lot about the clearcoating (or lack of). If I buy a NIB, it needs to be stripped and a real clear applied. So the effort is way too much for the pricetag. The Home Use NIB is really only a new trend - say the last 3-5 years. Although manufacturers took a long time to realize their market IS the Home Collectors ! The AC/DC temporary price decrease was designed to hurt WOZ sales, but it missed the mark as WOZ was delayed. I think it was a "one off" price reduction.

Now with the remakes and the new manufacturers, there will be more competition, and I'm sure some punters are hoping the prices will come down across the board. I think if the cost of HUO machines is roughly the same as the new manufacturers' NEW games, then the industry will be turned on it's head.

Prices have to come down, as competition has increased. The only problem with competition is that instead of cutting prices, some will cut corners.

New guys getting into the hobby - same as buying your first car. It is never a brand new car off the assembly line, it is always a second hand car from a relative or a car dealer's. I don't think a new pinball hobbyist would buy a NIB pinball unless they were AC/DC fans or Metallica fans.

[Freiherr]

Like I said before, the current NIB market is primarily attributed to the Baby Boomer generation going into retirement.  People born between 1946 and 1964 are the most cashed-up and carefree generation at the moment. They played and subsidised arcades during the pinball 1970s golden era and are now reliving their childhood by creating home arcades of their own. They have other toys such as cars, bikes, boats and fancy homes. The NIB trend may continue for a few more years and probably a  HUO market glut in 15-30 years when deceased estates of Baby Boomers hit the markets.
How do I know this? I was born in 1959 and I can see what my friends and I are doing. Stern probably saw this when they hit the lows in early 2000s but hung on for the Baby Boom wave to hit the shores which they are now happily riding.

[Pintoxicated]

I just get the feeling, not that there is any basis for this, but there is something akin to collusion going on where manufacturers see machines selling for a certain price and therefore think they will ask the same inflated price.  The only way I can see the NIB market being sustained as guy's money or room for machines runs out is keeping prices down.  I am worried that their greed will ultimately put new machines sales back to square 1 where we were several years ago and they will go back to being on shakey ground. 

ACDC gave Stern a lifeline IMHO, I can only hope they realise that they and others will ultimately need to meet the market to keep machines rolling out the door.

New machines keep the pinball hobby industry round.  A guy buys a new machines and more than likely sells a machine off to make room or help pay for the new machine.  If the NIB buyer is going to lose several thousand or more when it comes time to make way for a new title then he or she will think twice next time about buying another machine and/or selling the old machine.  I know if I paid $10k for a new machine, I would be gutted if I sold it a year or two down the track and the 2nd hand market would only pay $6k for it.  Let's not forget there is a thriving 'mod' market happening at the moment as well that can and will be effected if NIB sales drop.

[joele]

I just get the feeling, not that there is any basis for this, but there is something akin to collusion going on where manufacturers see machines selling for a certain price and therefore think they will ask the same inflated price. 

Standard practice really, they are charging what they believe the market will pay, we (enough of us anyway) keep buying at high prices they will keep charging them :-/

[Homepin]

This industry is little different to the car industry.

A few years ago I bought a two year old RX8 from a young guy who paid $68K for it new - I paid him $27K - a massive loss to him of $41K in just two years....

A new pin at $10K (depending on the title, number sold originally and popularity of course) would probably be worth around $5~7K after a couple of years IMO - that's just how things work.

Pinballs, like most cars, are not an investment. If you want an investment buy gold or bonds or something and try your luck there.

There is a point (again like cars) where the bottom price is reached - we see this with most SS machines selling for around the $1~3K price point and unless they are trashed that's probably about where they will sit price wise for a very long time to come IMO.

Pinballs are made to be enjoyed so stop worying about a bit of a loss and just play them!

[Caveoftreasures]

good topic.

when ACDC PRO was at $5950 (x delivery n shaker) OR $6500 APX delivered with shaker, our dollar was travelling around $1.13 apx if memory serves me correctly. At the time it was the highest I think our dollar ever went, and Bruce from AMD ordered a lot of ACDC machines and read the market very well.
Now, the same machine is $1,000 more at $6950 (x delivery n no shaker) cause of the aussie dollar.

To me, second hand prices of ACDC Pro machines shld rise in value, cause replacement cost is no longer $5950 or $6500 with shaker/delivery etc. I would argue the prices shld jump $500 to $750.
Before the ACDC lowest ever price of a PRO machine at $5950, prices were always high 6 thousands, low 7 thousands. I still think a brand new Pro Star Trek at say $6900 plus delivery (n maybe a shaker thrown in for repeat BNIB customers ??) > still represents excellent value for money.

Think of anything else fun. A Moto X bike is ten grand plus, a road bike is 10 to 15 K, a jetski 15 to 20 K etc etc, so to me, a BNIB Stern pin which looks the part, plays great, is a fun talking piece n fun for all who step up to it, at around 7 K, its a fun toy for many many years, and like a few said, you usually get 70 percent of ya money back $$ , if not more on resale. That cant be said for a lot of other big toys foir big boys.

On the other side of the coin, we all happily usually pay 3 or 4 grand for a 1990 to 1999 2nd hand pinny in good nick, so to me, it makes a brand new pinball machine BNIB, pro rata a very good price. I am not a fan of the Premium or LE version, cause I like the sppeed n flow n fastness of the Stern Pro models.
Just like a base model Ford or Holden 6 cylinder, base model with a few small factory mods/add ons always represents best bang for ya buck or value for money. Same for the Stern Pro model for me personally.
But we all love pinballs so we think these things called pinball machines are good fun n usually good value.

BUT, try telling someone who doesn't know the pinball industry, you are buying a 1993 piece of wood for 3 or 4 grand with wires running around it, and a square picture ontop with a few old computer boards in it, and they will think we are NUTS.lol    Keep flippin.  

[Pintoxicated]

This isn't and was never meant to be a comparison between pinball and cars, I was using cars as an example.

At $6-7k, I think most guys would be happy paying that sort of money.  Now we seem to be heading well over that figure and the point I was trying to make is that NIB sales won't be sustainable at that sort of price which will have a flow on effect.

We know the Aussie dollar has dropped and expect the prices to increase but we also expect for prices to drop if the dollar continues to rise. 

[Caveoftreasures]

Blair, I see ya point n totally agree, premium at $8950 or LE at 10 grand is a lot of money. But people are still paying it cause they know resale is still very high. Some people just have to have the latest n greatest. If ya can afford it, I guess its OK, but my mental limit is apx 7500 for ANY machine EVER. I like Pro models. I have friends who ONLY buy LE, go figure.....but I just hope Stern USA keeps prices lower to attract more volume n doesn't get too greedy. Bruce from AMD has always been a good business man n always doing his utmost to keep prices as low as he can.....he cant be blamed for crap aussie dollar.....maybe Stern could rethink its pricing to Australia to keep us all interested in the BNIB sales n keep our market share healthy still......(will Gary do this)......???

just glad the PRO level machine is still excellent n getting better every model.

(just used cars as a comparison to say base model pinny is like base model car, a lot of bang for ya buck)

Just hope Stern Pro model stays at a affordable rate.......and then we have the reserve bank of Australia - RBA saying our aussie dollar is still too high....not hard to tell he doesn't buy brand new pinball machines.lol