Minty, NIB, I don’t see the point

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Minty, NIB, I don’t see the point

I suppose this is a counter point to Cavey and his NIB, minty attitude

A pinball machine is for amusement, that is why they were built
You put your money in, hit the ball around, and hopefully score enough points to have another turn

These machines saw many years of use in arcades, fish and chip shops, so naturally they got a little battered. A few dints and scratches make up a part of what a pinball machine is. A little bit of playfield wear does not effect my enjoyment of a game.

Until a few years ago, none of us even dreamed of owning a brand new, never played pinball machine. Part of collecting was ‘the hunt’, doing research, talking to other enthusiasts, keeping an eye out, trying to find that next game.

Nowadays, there are some collections that are made up of machines that have never had a coin inserted, never been on location. People just turn up at a distributor, reach into their deep, deep pockets, and drive away with the latest offering from Stern

I see people buying a game and then selling it on, no attachment, just another toy

I don’t like the ‘the only good machine is the latest Stern’ or ‘I will only buy older games that are in perfect condition’

This is not what pinball is about
(Don't get me started about pro's, premiums and LE's)

I think there is something missing these days

: Pete

[pinball god]

I agree, but I don't think this is only a recent thing. I know guys years ago who would buy high end cars, even a new bentleigh and garage the things. When they heard I put nearly 500k on a bmw in no time from new they couldn't believe my stupidity. I answered them by saying I bought it to be driven and I enjoyed driving it. Why should I pay so much and just look at and then sell it for stuff all less for someone to enjoy it.

I don't buy new cars anymore because of such dicks. I now can enjoy their depreciation.

I think the same goes for such pinball collectors. Good luck to the second owners of the games.

[nath2099]

fish and chip shops, so naturally they got a little battered.

Boom boom tish.

[Strangeways]

Minty, NIB, I don’t see the point

I suppose this is a counter point to Cavey and his NIB, minty attitude

A pinball machine is for amusement, that is why they were built
You put your money in, hit the ball around, and hopefully score enough points to have another turn

These machines saw many years of use in arcades, fish and chip shops, so naturally they got a little battered. A few dints and scratches make up a part of what a pinball machine is. A little bit of playfield wear does not effect my enjoyment of a game.

Until a few years ago, none of us even dreamed of owning a brand new, never played pinball machine. Part of collecting was ‘the hunt’, doing research, talking to other enthusiasts, keeping an eye out, trying to find that next game.

Nowadays, there are some collections that are made up of machines that have never had a coin inserted, never been on location. People just turn up at a distributor, reach into their deep, deep pockets, and drive away with the latest offering from Stern

I see people buying a game and then selling it on, no attachment, just another toy

I don’t like the ‘the only good machine is the latest Stern’ or ‘I will only buy older games that are in perfect condition’

This is not what pinball is about
(Don't get me started about pro's, premiums and LE's)

I think there is something missing these days

: Pete

Absolutely spot on. The NIB Home Market is very much a new concept. Even Gary Stern had to listen to the investors to realize that Stern could not produce pinballs SOLELY for commercial use for operators. The Home market really took off with AC/DC, but it had been around for no more than 2 -5 years prior.

Bit of History straight from someone who was there - Gottlieb produced machines in the 60's and 70's to last no more than 5 years. They were designed and built for one reason - make money. In the 70's and 80's these machines made small fortunes, and instead of being thrown out, they were replaced with NEW games, but older games were so reliable and the industry was in it's Golden Age, so machines kept being re routed. The manufacturers had top designers and competition from other manufacturers - but there was no "Bally VS Gottlieb" or anything like that - a pinball machine was a "pinball machine". 20c per play.

Today, the industry is in survival mode - and it is a minor miracle that we still have machines being made - but it is no miracle that OLDER games keep on playing. They were made that well. People my age are reliving their youth and buying games they identified with as a teenager. I have customers that don't want games restored - they want them reconditioned in working order so they can PLAY the games. No interest in having it look new.

Pinball IS about the silver ball rolling across the playfield. Whether it be a woodrail or the latest DMD - you are meant to walk away with the little voice in your head - "just ONE more game"..

I do remember the sales catch cry of a new defunct Dealer - "Pinball is an investment". I've never heard such bollocks in all my life. Pinball IS fun, and addictive.. If pinheads collect late model pins to use as ornaments in the hope they appreciate in price later on - then they need to get into wall art or property.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I remember walking into Bumper at the time Elvis was released
Del came over to serve me, I was looking at the Elvis at that moment
he said to have a play, the voice in my head said there was no way I could afford a NEW machine

[Cursed]

Yep, don't need my games to be mint. Long as they play well and look decent I am happy, some wear and marks are not a problem.

In saying that I would not have a game that looked like it had sandpaper rubbed across it so I suppose I do have some limits.....

I also went through a strange phase where I wanted my machines to be Aussie delivered, no idea why but happy to say I am over that now.

[pinnies4me]

Like your style Pete.

While I thinks there is room for everyone's thoughts and opinions, I don't see the point in trying to convince others that "minty NIB" is the be all and end all.

I have been fortunate enough to have one NIB, but have enjoyed my different stages in the hobby - my early days reliving the past with SS games, and loving searching, finding and restoring, and my more recent turn to later model DMDs.

Both reflect how pinball was part of my life. The very start of the 80's and fun with those new fangled "digital" games which added so much to the mix after the EMs. I played a lot and spent a lot on time in arcades.

Just as I bought my first SS I came across an AFM and soon after a TZ near work, which sparked interest in these even more developed electronic systems and the greater depth they again lent to the games. Now I have moved towards those games (keeping a couple of choice SS games too).

I admire Gary Stern for keeping at it, but with the demise of the massive Williams involvement, and Sega giving it back, it was as much luck as anything. I recall a few years ago Gary making a point of how home use buyers were irrelevant to him. How things have changed.

[pinball god]

Yep, don't need my games to be mint. Long as they play well and look decent I am happy, some wear and marks are not a problem.

In saying that I would not have a game that looked like it had sandpaper rubbed across it so I suppose I do have some limits.....

I also went through a strange phase where I wanted my machines to be Aussie delivered, no idea why but happy to say I am over that now.

+1 you do have to look at them while playing and when not, but the kicker is you play them. You wanna look at something, buy a tv or painting or trophy wife....all of which give you mainly visual pleasure but not much physical stuff.  

[Retropin]

Ha ha.. the only reason I started restorations and experimenting with techniques was because I would be buying pins destined for the dump and resurrecting them. I started to cut my own stencils so I could repaint a piss poor cabinet.. then I found out that pinball Pal also made vinyl stencils!

Its never been NIB for me.. in fact if I don't have to do work on them then I just don't have that personal attachment.
Horses for courses etc, but the older, the better and DEFINATELY not working!

[pinnies4me]

if I don't have to do work on them then I just don't have that personal attachment.

+1 - nailed it!

[Caveoftreasures]

The descriptions have been around forever.
They are just used to describe the various conditions of the machines in relation to the money being asked.
It seems the descriptions are more important to those who have decided to pay a lot of money out for a brand new Pinny in or out of box, or for an expensive A condition machine regardless of year of manufacture.

Just a basic rating system.
Buy what u want. A machine for $500 can be as much fun to one owner that a $12,500 pinny is to another owner.
Buy and enjoy what you want ofcourse.
I have machines from $1200 to $12,000. They are all fun.

[onetaste]

I have bought a couple of recent sterns second hand. My thinking is that I am getting lots of people over to play tournaments, introduce beginners to pinball etc. A machine that is 20-30 years old breaks down much quicker, plastics parts are brittle, metal parts are worn and fatigued. So I want some recent machines that will take more plays and not require so much of my time keeping them playing.

[Boots]

I have bought a couple of recent sterns second hand. My thinking is that I am getting lots of people over to play tournaments, introduce beginners to pinball etc. A machine that is 20-30 years old breaks down much quicker, plastics parts are brittle, metal parts are worn and fatigued. So I want some recent machines that will take more plays and not require so much of my time keeping them playing.

You can have that with old an new machines.
Do the work up front and the older machines are just as reliable, especially in a home environment.