Stern Thincoat - Dimples & Craters

[Strangeways]

Not defending Stern and this can actually be a criticism, but when talking about old EM's or a Flash etc and probably most B/W games I do not recall such games having many if any Airballs. Now that probably is because they were well designed and in the case of EM's things are moving much slower. So if a ball is bouncing around the playfield a lot, multiballs a plenty all contribute to dimpling.

So this could be one explanation or contributing factor on top of softer pf's. What caused divots around ramp ball drop areas on B/W games. I'm guessing thousands of balls dropping in the one spot. My thoughts anyway 

EMs and SS machines up to the early 80's didn't have a clearcoat. That's another hole in Steve's argument ("60 years in pinball"), because if you knew the facts up to 60 years ago, you would know that manufacturers used varnish. They also used STRONGER TIMBER. In fact, it is only recently that this has become an argument - because Stern use weaker timber and a clearcoat process that is over 15 years old.

The timber is softer, and the clearcoat is old technology.

Thats why when we apply modern clears to older playfields - guess what - They don't dimple anywhere near what new Sterns do..

[pinball god]

now my question is can you still buy the same timbers or are the choices now limited to new growth stuff only like I have seen in other industries. It doesn't matter whether your tech/workmanship side remains the same, crap raw materials is crap raw materials.


So does Stern have a choice or are they purely cost cutting? Are we as HUO customers too fussy (I know this is not an excuse as Stern obviously have targeted this market and must adjust for it)?


Dimpling hasn't concerned me because I guess I'm getting older and I once strived for perfection but have come to the conclusion it is impossible to achieve. There is a lot of disappointments out there when you know things can be done better (with only a little care and effort) that is out of your control.

[pinnies4me]

now my question is can you still buy the same timbers or are the choices now limited to new growth stuff only like I have seen in other industries. It doesn't matter whether your tech/workmanship side remains the same, crap raw materials is crap raw materials.


So does Stern have a choice or are they purely cost cutting? Are we as HUO customers too fussy (I know this is not an excuse as Stern obviously have targeted this market and must adjust for it)?


Dimpling hasn't concerned me because I guess I'm getting older and I once strived for perfection but have come to the conclusion it is impossible to achieve. There is a lot of disappointments out there when you know things can be done better (with only a little care and effort) that is out of your control.

I'm like you Rob, perfection is for others, and dimples and pinball go hand in hand.

But what bothers me is that while it appears to me that softer wood is the primary culprit (and potentially the thinner clear as well), why this is not embraced by Stern as the answer confuses me. if the best wood around is softer these days, then that's that.

But if they are buying the cheapest, then the propaganda is out of line.

My IPB replacement FH playfield of ten years with massive play numbers has some dimples - *some*. The BBB made by them (and presumably using the same playfield supplier) has *some* dimples since 2005.  My HUO but well played Stern 2008 Spider Man has *some"* dimples and has plenty of the air balls Stern seeks to blame. My AFM Mirco original run playfield (ie real artwork, not the weird underlayer version used now) which must be 8 years old has *some* dimples - and if you want an airball game, there's one for you. yet every later model Stern I have seen has the apparently immediate everywhere dimple problem.

Go figure.

[pinnies4me]

now my question is can you still buy the same timbers or are the choices now limited to new growth stuff only like I have seen in other industries. It doesn't matter whether your tech/workmanship side remains the same, crap raw materials is crap raw materials.


So does Stern have a choice or are they purely cost cutting? Are we as HUO customers too fussy (I know this is not an excuse as Stern obviously have targeted this market and must adjust for it)?


Dimpling hasn't concerned me because I guess I'm getting older and I once strived for perfection but have come to the conclusion it is impossible to achieve. There is a lot of disappointments out there when you know things can be done better (with only a little care and effort) that is out of your control.

I'm like you Rob, perfection is for others, and dimples and pinball go hand in hand.

But what bothers me is that while it appears to me that softer wood is the primary culprit (and potentially the thinner clear as well), why this is not embraced by Stern as the answer confuses me. if the best wood around is softer these days, then that's that.

But if they are buying the cheapest, then the propaganda is out of line.

My IPB replacement FH playfield of ten years with massive play numbers has some dimples - *some*. The BBB made by them (and presumably using the same playfield supplier) has *some* dimples since 2005.  My HUO but well played Stern 2008 Spider Man has *some"* dimples and has plenty of the air balls Stern seeks to blame. My AFM Mirco original run playfield (ie real artwork, not the weird underlayer version used now) which must be 8 years old has *some* dimples - and if you want an airball game, there's one for you. yet every later model Stern I have seen has the apparently immediate everywhere dimple problem.

Go figure.

[pinnies4me]

now my question is can you still buy the same timbers or are the choices now limited to new growth stuff only like I have seen in other industries. It doesn't matter whether your tech/workmanship side remains the same, crap raw materials is crap raw materials.


So does Stern have a choice or are they purely cost cutting? Are we as HUO customers too fussy (I know this is not an excuse as Stern obviously have targeted this market and must adjust for it)?


Dimpling hasn't concerned me because I guess I'm getting older and I once strived for perfection but have come to the conclusion it is impossible to achieve. There is a lot of disappointments out there when you know things can be done better (with only a little care and effort) that is out of your control.

I'm like you Rob, perfection is for others, and dimples and pinball go hand in hand.

But what bothers me is that while it appears to me that softer wood is the primary culprit (and potentially the thinner clear as well), why this is not embraced by Stern as the answer confuses me. if the best wood around is softer these days, then that's that.

But if they are buying the cheapest, then the propaganda is out of line.

My IPB replacement FH playfield of ten years with massive play numbers has some dimples - *some*. The BBB made by them (and presumably using the same playfield supplier) has *some* dimples since 2005.  My HUO but well played Stern 2008 Spider Man has *some* dimples and has plenty of the air balls Stern seeks to blame. My AFM Mirco original run playfield (ie real artwork, not the weird printed version I'm told is used now) which must be 8 years old has *some* dimples - and if you want an airball game, there's one for you.

Yet every later model Stern I have seen has the apparently immediate everywhere dimple problem. But it is not their wood or clearcoat.

Go figure.

[Retropin]

The answer Nick is quite simple... anyone with a Wade Kraus or CPR repro playfield please tell us whether it has dimples or not. Ply comes in many grades and I know wade is very particular about the timber he uses.
If these 2 manufacturers suffer from dimpling then its just the way the world is... if not, then its right back at Stern.