Author Topic: Queen Of Diamonds  (Read 5811 times)

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Offline Strangeways

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2009, 11:30:42 AM »
Once again thanyou for taking the time for posting here Mark.

This forum was made for guys like you and I'm so glad a guy with your restoration skills is here.

Lee offered me this game years ago and I passed because I honestly thought it was beyond restoration - it was hammered. Just shows you what is possible.

Very inspirational stuff  ^^^

"beyond restoration"

What does that mean Tony ?

 %.% %.%
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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2009, 07:18:13 PM »
more photos...Mark

Offline illawarra_steelers

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2009, 08:12:44 PM »
Oh she is soooooooo pretty, glad to see some more love for Gottlieb woodrails....are they the reproduction rails that PBR sells?

The other game that is similiar that I really love is World Beauties from 1959.

http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?name=World+Beauties&mfgid=93&yr=1959&pl=1&searchtype=advanced

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2009, 10:43:20 PM »
Hi pinball people, .... yes, they're the reproduction woodrails from PBR. They were fantastic. Just add some stain and some wood polish. While I'm mentioning repros, for a restoration like Queen Of Diamonds, these are some of the parts which were repro'd. The front door, the coin plates, the bee-hive shooter part, the backglass, the pop bumper caps, the wooden front bar...(for this part, Lee sent me down the original and I gave it to a wood machine shop to copy. I copied the metal attachment and the thin 'bolts'.) Also, the playfield plastics, the cream (now white) rollover guides on top of playfield. Unbelievably, the bottom playfield red guide lanes were perfect! Also, the legs, the front and rear door locks, the balls ..... And that's before I mention the wooden frame around the head. This had been sawn off on the side, but there was enough info from the top and lower pieces, so that I got more of this shape made, and then made the frame to fit....also, the cigarette holder on left rail.
           The coin return metal piece on the front door is an interesting one. The original was rusty, pitted and battered...you can't get this piece at PBR (as far as I know), so in the end, I got it chromed. Also, on the inside sides of the cabinet there's a metal piece (l & r) about one metre long,which would have been shiny when new, but now it was flat, and tired and 'dirty'. These two pieces I sent to the chrome shop too. I figured that once they would have reflected light from the playfield back to the playfield, and they sure do now. It works out great as machines from this period aren't overly lit, and this really helps brighten things up.
           I'm sure there's other parts I've forgotten, and I've only mentioned parts on the playfield, ...not underneath. In the end, a pinball machine is worth what someone will pay for it...and Queen Of Diamonds is a good example of why. In this case, I had no choice, but to replace these parts, as the originals had been changed, abused, worn out, rusted, etc. A 'sure 'nuff' never been touched, Class 1, original machine is the BEST ( and practically impossible to find) .... but next to that, I reckon you can't beat a good restored 50's or 60's machine. ...





 

Offline ddstoys

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2009, 10:47:05 PM »
Sounds like you have given it just the right amount of attention it deserves great work

Offline Strangeways

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2009, 11:19:11 PM »

I now want a Woodrail to restore !!

Great thread - I've really enjoyed reading the process  ^^^
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Offline Retropin

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2009, 11:29:01 PM »
ooooh that is just beooootiful!!!
Thanks for this thread.. ive enjoyed every bit of it.


 I always say that there is nothing that cant be restored... its just a matter of time and effort.

The proof's right here... ^^^ ^^^ ^^^

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2009, 03:15:59 PM »
Hi guys, Thanks for all the positive feedback and comments you've given regarding this most difficult restoration of a pinball machine. If you thought I was finished, then I'm not quite done .......
          So far, I've talked about the cabinet, the playfield, and some of the parts that were replaced. This only leaves the 'under-side' of the playfield, and what's in the cabinet itself.
          I'm going to make a few comments here which may prompt debate and agreement or disagreement. That's ok with me, as there are lots of opinions and ideas to consider when thinking about how/what to restore. Let me begin by making comment about something. I've heard the comment a few times that only pinballs with 'original' paintwork, plastics, backglass etc are worthy of being classed as 'collectible'. For me, this comes under the banner of what I call 'The Illusion of Fantasy' ...... I've already conceeded that a Class 1, 'original', untouched machine is the most desirable. The one catch here is that I've NEVER seen such a machine. Pinballs are like old cars. When they are in 'original' condition they are almost always broken, clapped out, rusted, non-working. Yes, they may be in 'original' condition, but even that is misleading.
           We all enjoyed playing machines in arcades, milk bars etc and usually, these machines were 'as new' ..ie: all shiny, good bright paint, evrything working as new. In fact it was a real thrill to rock up to the milkbar to find the latest Gottlieb had just arrived. They looked fantastic, they sounded great and they were the complete 'fantasy'. These machines had nothing to do with some broken down wreck, and if a wreck had been in the milkbar, it would barely get a coin compared to a sparkly, new model. ...that is if they worked at all.
            So, when a machine is repainted, it's because it HAS to be repainted. When I look at the pics of The Queen Of Diamonds in the state I got it, it's just laughable. It's not the faithfull reproduction of a design/paintjob that's a problem ..... it's the folks who decide to paint the box bright purple who are the worry. Once a machine has been changed to 'non-original', then the best thing from that point is to bring it back to as close to original as possible. When I think of what I prefer ... Q of D as I got it, or as it is now, then there's only one way to go. No one (surely) would argue that it was better before I re-did the cabinet.
            Another thing that happens is this .... Often a machine can both LOOK better and WORK better than it ever did when it was new. Pinnies are that strange combination of two opposing principles...1. It needs to be made for as cheap as possible...2. It needs to NEVER break down..(no working, no money!) So while electro-mechanical pinballs have much that is 'indestructable' about them, they also have a certain 'cheap and nasty' aspect to them. In other words, they can easily be restored to look, work and BE BETTER than they ever were when they were new. Yes, that's a fact.... Like old cars, when they are done thoroughly, they will often present better than 'original'. The cabinet is an easy part to show this. As I said, when I repaint, I do 2-3 undercoats, 3-4 coats main cream colour, and when all colour is on box, I give it all around 4-5 coats of a clear semi-gloss..... End result: the cabinet has been properly done and therefore should last years and years and still look like new. It should not flake off or fade like they do from the factory.
            So just because a pinball looks better than it did when new, that is no reason to think of it as 'less' than an original. The differences should only be slight Eg: chroming a part which was originally stainless steel. So, when a restored machine looks and plays better than original, please don't rush to 'put it down'. In many regards, by then it is in fact a superior example to the 'mint' original ...(still usually impossible to find.) In USA they have more pinball machines, so have a tendancy to 'look down their nose' at restored machines. I think that it's not the restorers who are the problem....it's the 'butchers' and 'hackers' who show no regard for what & how they are changing the machine. .....
             I do want to finish of my notes about Queen Of Diamonds. I still have to say a few things about flippers, bumpers, and what's under the playfield. However, I got a bit side-tracked here, so I'll leave that till the next time I get a chance to write a bit. (I'll give you a few tips on how to get better the factory performance, without changing any factory parts/settings. Yes, it CAN be done, and fairly easily too.)
             Have a great weekend...... Also, I'd like to say that I'm open to offers to sell /trade my machines. I only have World Fair, Sweethearts, Sky Jump, and Queen Of Diamonds left. As I get older, I do better with less machines, and so periodically, I like to turn a few over so I can get other machines....Also, I'm looking for a new and worthy restoration project. If you have such a machine, and know that you'll never actually get the time to do it yourself, maybe we can do something. Regards, Mark






   







Offline Strangeways

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2009, 03:36:48 PM »

Great post, Mark.

I think along similar lines - The machines are often neglected and poorly maintained during their route days, and sometimes ever further neglected once privately owned. I tend to target the VERY neglected machines as they deserve to be treated better and the results can often be VERY satisfying post restoration.

My "signature" restoration was a Gottlieb Jacks Open. Around 200 hours and fully rebuilt. I coined the phrase "Nearly In Box" as it was a close to Original condition as it was ever going to get.
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Offline ddstoys

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2009, 04:47:31 PM »
I agree Mark well done.  Id rather see some one return a hacked machine back to original

Offline ajlaird

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2009, 12:06:03 AM »
There are a couple of schools of thought on this one, but I think everyone agrees that a clapped-out playfield or very tired cabinet warrants some work.

At the moment I am tending towards leaving my machines as is, just because the hours you guys put in scare me. Might look into newer plastics and targets one day. But then, the playfields on the pins I have chosen are showing minimal wear anyway.

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2009, 12:16:24 AM »
Greetings all, I'm back with a bit more on restoring the Queen Of Diamonds ... (and restoring generally). The part I haven't mentioned is all the 'mechanical' side of things, which is my favourite part of the whole deal.....Flippers, pop bumpers, kicking rubber mechanisms, roto target assembly (in the 'head'), score reels, 0-9 units (for tens of thousands), 100,000 point score assembly etc.
          First, let me say that when I do a machine, I try to clean and check EVERY part, and piece of the machine. I clean things like the motor board, and all wiring in the cabinet and head. I also dis-assemble, clean, adjust etc all relays, re-set coils, connectors. I believe that dirt is the enemy of the pinball machine. Solenoids are designed to work dry and clean. Basically, if it's on the machine, I clean it.
          My favourite cleaner is Eucalyptus oil, ...it really gets out grease from fine lines on the playfield, and is gentle to them, BUT it will remove oil based paint real fast so..........
I use tissues and cotton buds for cleaning. Nothing is ever 'wet' but more 'damp' and as soon as the tissue shows any grime or dirt, I throw it away and get a new one. This way, you only have to get the dirt off once. I'm not a lover of using rags for this type of cleaning. I also have a can of Furniture polish (Farmland, or the cheap Coles kind are my favourites), Brasso or a metal cleaner, and oil. Oil is only used sparingly for the score motor, the 'contact' parts (with the little springs) of a 0-9 unit, and stuff like the roto target cogs.
          I've mentioned before how a good restoration can be better than original in many ways.......Eg: why not get a set of felt cabinet protectors from mark c. Why put a wooden cabinet through the stress that a metal leg can put on it, when you don't have to. Before I bought these from Mark I used to put a couple of layers of clear 'Contact' onto the inside of the legs, so that the metal would not be touching the cabinet. Simple, but better than original.
           Adjustment of contact blades is essential to get the best from flippers, pop bumpers and kicking rubbers but here's one thing that works for me........ On all these units, I brasso, or metal polish (by hand) the barrel of the solenoid. If you work backwards and forwards, you can feel when the little bumps etc go, and the surface becomes smooth. Then I clean it off, and then do the same thing with the furniture polish....put in on the clean barrel, and then wipe it dry. I also wipe the inside of the plastic coil sleeve with furniture polish, and then wipe that dry.....this makes the surface of both the barrel and the inside of the sleeve REALLY smooth....End result is that all these components WILL work faster and smoother than they did when new. I know this sounds a bit far fetched but it's true. Of course,all the rest like having good coil stops, barrels without burrs or uneven wear etc is essential too, but if all the parts are fine, then they can be made to work at their optimum...Pop bumper contact points can be set much closer than factory specs (they were set so that the bumper would never 'repeat' from contacts being too close, as this would result in the coil burning out, and the machine not making any money.) ...and you know if any of these things are too close, as the bumper will 'repeat' or work from surrounding vibration only, and the kicking rubber will rat-tat-tat too much. ..somewhere between 1.5-3 mm, I guess, for the pop bumper contact points under the playfield.
             The last thing I'd say is that after all the work I did on this machine, I took it to Colin Smith so he could fix the creative wiring changes, and generally put the machine through its paces. It had a lot wrong with it and Col did a great job as he methodically went over the machine. ... I have taken all of my machines to Col at some stage, and he is just a master at pinball. He knows these machines like his own hand, and really understands them and all their peculiarities. I salute you Col.
             So that's about it briefly, in terms of the Queen Of Diamonds. It's a great game to play and a beauty to look at, even when it's switched off. It was worth the time and effort that me and my wife Kerrie spent on it. It took about a year to do all this stuff. It easier to write about it than it is to do!  Happy Trails, Mark





Offline illawarra_steelers

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Re: Queen Of Diamonds
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2009, 08:38:39 AM »
Thanks again for posting Mark, I just hung on to every word  *%*

I'm looking at slowly unloading all my 1960s Gottlieb pins to replace them all with woodrails so if you have any other woodrails maybe we could work a trade?