1st EM (Williams Gulfstream) - first problem - first post

[ktm450]

  hope you get it sorted mate

[kraig]

Thanks for the welcome and for all the help so far. The more we delve into it, the more I admire the way these EMs are designed - it's very cool nutting out how the stepper units work and actually seeing switching operate etc.

A couple of things to help us along if possible:

1. Does any one have schematics or other diagrams for a Williams EM of this vintage? There are a few labels missing from relays and other units that are making it a bit difficult to check off the pinrepair startup sequence step by step.
2. Can anyone confirm if our understanding of the credit unit function (see photo with the coloured arrows) is correct...and if it's meant to work that way?

[Strangeways]

Thanks for the welcome and for all the help so far. The more we delve into it, the more I admire the way these EMs are designed - it's very cool nutting out how the stepper units work and actually seeing switching operate etc.

A couple of things to help us along if possible:

1. Does any one have schematics or other diagrams for a Williams EM of this vintage? There are a few labels missing from relays and other units that are making it a bit difficult to check off the pinrepair startup sequence step by step.
2. Can anyone confirm if our understanding of the credit unit function (see photo with the coloured arrows) is correct...and if it's meant to work that way?

I have a feeling Gavin (Retropin) has a Gulf Stream. I don't have a Williams EM within reach to provide you with the info - so maybe he will "chime" in and provide a photo. sounds like an easy fix.

[Retropin]

*****CHING!!*******

OK - chimed in and yes - i have schematics and also manual ( i think).

I may be waaaay off track here though, but reading your posts - is it possible that someone has tried to turn the game to free play? ( and then got it horribly wrong)

[robm]

Just went out to the shed for another look, i don't think it has tried to be set to freeplay.  From what i understand, the credit zero position switch (blue arrow in picture on previous page) needs to be set to permanently closed to set to freeplay.  The top two blades of this switch have all original wiring on them - in fact all of the wiring in the back box looks at least 35 years old!!.  Unless there is another way to set it to free play?

[robm]

Does the fact no coils are firing have anything to do with anything??

At this point in time I can push the start button to start a game, but the kick out solenoid won't fire.  If the trough switch stays closed (since the coil doesn't fire it out) the score motor keeps running.

But, if i open the trough switch and hit the tilt, then close the trough switch to simulate a ball drain, the ball light drops one number as if in a real game.  But before hitting the tilt switch, no playfield switches or coils respond to being closed...

Is this the/a problem or simply a symptom of a larger problem (being the score motor continually running if trough switch is closed, likely to do with an incorrect start up sequence as described previously)?

Has anyone designed an EM to DMD plug so we can run diagnostics from switches on the coin door!!

[kraig]

We've been working through the Williams startup sequence from pinrepair - got to looking at the bonus unit and now more puzzled... see photo.
The bonus unit doesn't move at all during the startup sequence (which it is meant to do) .

1. It looks like there should be two solenoids on the unit, but as shown in the photo there's only one and no sign there ever has been two - is this right?
2. Assume the bonus unit senses zero position via the "snowshoe" type wiper unit (so no blade-type zero position switch)?

[Retropin]

Heres what the relay stacks on the score motor do.. this might well help you... ill post some pics later of inside the machine so you know what relay is which inside.. this should give you the info you  need to get her going



..

Thinking on one of your last posts - no solenoids firing - could be because start up is not completing, or,if no power at coils in game mode then check "HOLD"relay - one of the switches here should have the leaf switch that supplies power. If power there, but no firing then youve lost ground.. flollow this through for broken contact/ wire... this is all of course assuming that fuses are good etc

[kraig]

Thanks Retropin.

I'll follow up on those diagrams and your suggestions on the weekend - unfortunately the machine lives about 25km from where I do.

[Retropin]

Ok - im fixing my WMS 64 PALOOKA which has been kinda screwing with my head. I had a few faults with this including a very strange mod on the score motor which is bloody odd!!
The game is a 5 ball add a Ball game same as Gulf Stream - i got the start up to a point where once coin door button was pushed, game would TRY to start but not credit balls and not put ball into play. The bonus unit in the back would DECREMENT 5 steps instead of INCREMENT... first reaction is to assume that wires had been installed incorrectly during someones fix up and swapping them over would reverse the symptoms - seems reasonable.
Not so - solder is original

Fault was in the GAME RELAY - there is a 2 way leaf switch, when it pulls one way, it DECREMENTS, it then reverses and INCREMENTS - this is the normal start up sequence.. it HAS to go one way and then the other.

I looked at the Gulf Stream schematics to see if the circuit was the same and it is... the INCREMENT and DECREMENT circuits are identical although judging by your pictures, it is installed differently ( increment is under the PF and i believe is 3 in line relay - something like that anyway)

BUT...... The relay to check is the 2nd to last at the back of the cabinet - its on a metal plate and is GAME RELAY - 2 way leaf switch is on far right.
Adjust this so there is only a tiny gap when it is open... it needs good tension to operate properly

LOOKS LIKE THIS



Let me know how you go and ill go have a look in the back box for you

[Retropin]

We've been working through the Williams startup sequence from pinrepair - got to looking at the bonus unit and now more puzzled... see photo.
The bonus unit doesn't move at all during the startup sequence (which it is meant to do) .

1. It looks like there should be two solenoids on the unit, but as shown in the photo there's only one and no sign there ever has been two - is this right?
2. Assume the bonus unit senses zero position via the "snowshoe" type wiper unit (so no blade-type zero position switch)?

That is a picture of the MATCH unit - this awards  a match at end of game and only requires 1 solenoid.
BALL COUNT UNIT which is the one we need to increment is on the left of this and should have 2 solenoids

[kraig]

Thanks for that, Retro.

Your symptoms sound familiar, and we had wondered if the problem in the startup sequence had something to do with the game relay. Will check it out on the weekend.

[kraig]

My Game Relay is exactly as shown in your photo, Retro, and it appears to be fine (tightened switch gaps anyway).

I'm wondering if I have wrongly identified some of the components in the machine, which would be confusing my understanding of the startup procedure. Hoping the folks here can confirm or correct me and fill in the gaps. (see photos)

Backbox
1.   Ball count unit
2.   Match unit
3.   Replay unit (according to sticker) This also termed the credit unit, right?
4.   ??
5.   100pt relay
6.   1000pt relay
7.   ??
8.   Score reset relay

Playfield left
1.    ??

Playfield right
1.   On bumper relay
2.   ?? 500 pt relay unit
3.   ?? 500 pt relay unit

Cabinet
The labels are still on everything here, so I know what they are.

Q. Where is the "bonus unit" and the "bonus relay"?

[Retropin]

You have all cabinet labels yes??

Under the PF -  bottom relays - these are the 2 side by side. On left is INLINE RESET RELAY,  on right is 500 POINT RELAY,
The other relays are for bumpers etc - not the logic of the game

In back box - none of mine are labelled also and game is  in pieces so i cant start her up and tell you.
 This will be going in my shop soon though and will work it out then