new bib le

[casperthefriendly]

Everyone buys these products knowing they come with a warranty. You just cant dump it back at the dealer and demand your money, it doesnt work this way. You have to give the dealer every fair and reasonable opportunity to provide factory warranty and fix the item. 

Hi,

Whilst you are on the money with your second point about providing the Dealer with "reasonably opportunity" to repair the goods, your first point about warranties and refunds is not correct under current Australian law.

Since January 2010, nearly all new products sold in Australia are covered by the Australian Consumer Law (a.k.a "Lemon Law" - though the ACL strictly isn't that). The ACL provides consumer guarantees enshrined in law that override any warranties or guarantees provided by Dealers or manufacturers. http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=fact_sheets/FAQ.htm

In a nutshell, the ACL covers everything from toasters to new cars and provides consumers with the ability to obtain repairs AND refunds. The repairs/refunds clause has no expiry time, does not have anything to do with "express" warranties issued by dealers/manufacturers and is subject to a "reasonableness" test.

Simple example would be that if you bought a TV for $3k that had a two year warranty from the manufacturer and the TV died unrepairably after 2 1/2 years (6 months outside of "warranty"), the ACL would consider such an early major failure on an expensive item to be "unreasonable". You would then be able to request a repair, replacement or a refund and take action under the ACL.

My area of experitse with the ACL is with automotive and more and more frequently new car owners are pursuing their consumer rights under the ACL to request full refunds or replacements of new vehicles that have had "major" faults.

There are no time limits on how long the ACL stays in effect - simply that the product was sold to a consumer after 1st Jan 2011. The trick is that it is all subject to the "reasonable" test, and what is reasonable for someone may not be for someone else.

To bring it back on topic somewhat, if Stern's "warranty" on ACDC is 6 months and a NIB owner had a major fault at 8 months that required extensive/expensive repair, then the NIB owner could argue that a $10k product failing within a year was not reasonable and request repair, replacement or full refund of the purchase price. Whilst in theory you could go straight for a refund, you must allow Dealers/manufacturers a "reasonable" opportunity to recitify the problems first, which would mean that repair would be the likely outcome.

Consumers have much more power these days - make sure you are aware of your rights!

[Retropin]

I now have little or no confidence in Stern to bring a Avengers pin to full fruition and not be riddled with issues. I doubt they could even get the full and decent game together that it deserves let alone all the Quality control issuses that are going on.
Avengers would be a much bigger title than ACDC and I can't afford to have them to stuff it up, so I won't be buying one new if they announce it. 
Stern will just rush it out, like they did with this title and leave buyers pissed off and disapointed.
I bet if it was JJP doing a super-hero theme it would be pretty amazing and not some rush job to cash in.

Seems to me that the problem is NIB and Sterns inability to send out 100% games. No reason why you can buy AVENGERS or any other title, but i wouldnt be going for the NIB experience, it would make sense to buy one relatively new or prechecked... having the pleasure of being the first to play your game is fraught with issues

It has me a little scared Gav, I am super keen on a Avengers pin and would love one NIB but if I bought one and got it home and it was DOA or whatever I reckon I would go right off the deep end...yep 2nd hand or next to new would be the only way to go for me. I just can't trust them though, I sorta hope they don't do one then I won't have the worry of it.

I hear ya Daz and all this has raised some serious concerns regarding Stern products.
There are 2 ways to look at this though. ACDC is the first pin that predominantly sold to the home market... many faults have been hilighted.
 Now this may have always been the case with Stern or any other pinball manufacturer, but the dealers have in the past acted as a buffer zone to the general public... i doubt we will ever find this out as any dealer has to create confidence in their product, so they keep quiet about the percentage of faulty ones.
Other way to look at this is that Stern have dropped the silver ball on this one... we dont know and i doubt we ever will.

What you yourself do know as one very happy owner of Iron Man is that once the machine is 100% it is by and large reliable.. same as many other Stern titles that eventually go to home use... theyve been tried and tested and seem reliable.

Moral is i guess.... use the dealer as your quality control and dont get too caught up in being the first to open a box....

.... Maybe Silverball could tell us if the level of faults is primarily related to ACDC or wether its quite normal for a Stern product. An answer to either of these points would replace a lot of lost confidence... its a 1 off... or its normal but you never knew till now.
My main concern with any future Stern product is the use of surface mount EVERYTHING. On WPT they had surface mount, but transistors etc were still through hole allowing simple repairs.

It was only the advent of SS games that a locked on coil became an issue... didnt matter with EM as those brass switches can handle plenty of current.... discrete components cannot.

IF we are to have surface mount technology as the norm for a Stern pinball then they need to move away from the use of coils to rebound a ball... its could all be done with attract and repel magnetic fields.. the concept of the MagLev train has been around for decades.. it works TOO well and they cant stop the bloody thing.
Nearly 40 years of SS pinball technology and in all that time its Achilles heel has been the coil and its current backwash... now Stern make a board that has surface mount diode and transistor??

 Its just plain stupidity

[Caveoftreasures]

The Stern website has information about Stern introducing a completely new boardset at the end of 2012.  The current ones seem to work fine, so it might mean Stern are upgrading the boards for newer technologies (LCD screens or ??). 

* MAYBE THE MODS, as a courtesy to Studley want to clean up this thread and send half/most of the warranty related stuff over to the STERN WARRANTY AC/DC THREAD ETC ? 

[silverball]

My distributor has been terrific in sorting the situation but this product has been rushed through the door.
So far a LED control board and full motor/gearbox has been changed. A connector which appears to have black contacts on the cpu still may present a problem. Games appear to be working now although and LED tri colour has just shit itself. Other switch/wiring/adjustment problems were sorted out by myself with the distributors acknowledgement.
Owners take note....check the ball at the base of the bell as mine was loose and unscrewed itself before digging a trench in the playfield.
Nearly broke my backglass when lowering the backbox as the key can be removed from the lock in the open or closed position.
Using a USB to update the software that the machine doesnt like will erase all your memory and the game wont boot - this happened to me.

I would rather not comment on the other problems I have found in unboxing new machines. I like Sterns and have several models in my collection so understand that I am not being biased against.

[GORGAR 1]

My distributor has been terrific in sorting the situation but this product has been rushed through the door.
So far a LED control board and full motor/gearbox has been changed. A connector which appears to have black contacts on the cpu still may present a problem. Games appear to be working now although and LED tri colour has just shit itself. Other switch/wiring/adjustment problems were sorted out by myself with the distributors acknowledgement.
Owners take note....check the ball at the base of the bell as mine was loose and unscrewed itself before digging a trench in the playfield.
Nearly broke my backglass when lowering the backbox as the key can be removed from the lock in the open or closed position.
Using a USB to update the software that the machine doesnt like will erase all your memory and the game wont boot - this happened to me.

I would rather not comment on the other problems I have found in unboxing new machines. I like Sterns and have several models in my collection so understand that I am not being biased against.

Glad its working out Dave I also checked my bell and the ball is tight but will keep and eye on it..

Peter

[ralph67]

I think some people just ask for a spare playfield versus having it fitted. Hence the dealer was fine for that warranty claim probably.

I reckon less than 160 to 200 games in total have come to Australia. (all acdc models)

I was told that each dealer(3) had sold around 100 machines each snapperjoe has sold around that number. There has been one that smoked. did not take out the fuse and cooked aux power board. and some problems with ball traps around the cannon. Also some issues with wet plastics(print not cured)and sticking to the protective washers, Stern should have better QC . But still a great game when bugs are sorted. Oops 300 of all ACDC models

[Replay]

 
Hi,

Whilst you are on the money with your second point about providing the Dealer with "reasonably opportunity" to repair the goods, your first point about warranties and refunds is not correct under current Australian law.

Since January 2010, nearly all new products sold in Australia are covered by the Australian Consumer Law (a.k.a "Lemon Law" - though the ACL strictly isn't that). The ACL provides consumer guarantees enshrined in law that override any warranties or guarantees provided by Dealers or manufacturers. http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/Content.aspx?doc=fact_sheets/FAQ.htm

In a nutshell, the ACL covers everything from toasters to new cars and provides consumers with the ability to obtain repairs AND refunds. The repairs/refunds clause has no expiry time, does not have anything to do with "express" warranties issued by dealers/manufacturers and is subject to a "reasonableness" test.

Simple example would be that if you bought a TV for $3k that had a two year warranty from the manufacturer and the TV died unrepairably after 2 1/2 years (6 months outside of "warranty"), the ACL would consider such an early major failure on an expensive item to be "unreasonable". You would then be able to request a repair, replacement or a refund and take action under the ACL.

My area of experitse with the ACL is with automotive and more and more frequently new car owners are pursuing their consumer rights under the ACL to request full refunds or replacements of new vehicles that have had "major" faults.

There are no time limits on how long the ACL stays in effect - simply that the product was sold to a consumer after 1st Jan 2011. The trick is that it is all subject to the "reasonable" test, and what is reasonable for someone may not be for someone else.

To bring it back on topic somewhat, if Stern's "warranty" on ACDC is 6 months and a NIB owner had a major fault at 8 months that required extensive/expensive repair, then the NIB owner could argue that a $10k product failing within a year was not reasonable and request repair, replacement or full refund of the purchase price. Whilst in theory you could go straight for a refund, you must allow Dealers/manufacturers a "reasonable" opportunity to recitify the problems first, which would mean that repair would be the likely outcome.

Consumers have much more power these days - make sure you are aware of your rights!




[/quote]


return the machine and get your money back, easy done