SS pin repairs

[Crashramp]

I love a good late 70’s early 80’s SS pin. Particularly the Bally’s and the Gottlieb’s, in fact most of my collection is made up of these pre DMD games. The only issue with owning these machines is that they have a tenancy to present with weird problems. It’s something that you have to accept if you like these old games then occasionally you have the figure out what the hell is going on with them. Most of my “tech” work is really just me fumbling around with a screw driver, box of fuses and a multi meter hoping for a red flag to pop out and hit me between the eyes. I am fortunate that there are plenty here who are willing to offer advice and on more than one occasion I’ve had Pintoxicated drop around to help work out problems (don’t mention the coil sleeve I left out of the flipper coil, that would be embarrassing). I really wish there was a  SS pin related short course I could do so that I could better problem solve issues without having to take weeks to do it. There’s nothing more rewarding than identifying and fixing your own pinball problems, but there is nothing more painful than spending countless hours looking for problems in the wrong spot.
Anyone want to run a short course? I’m in!

[pinnies4me]

The old Repair Guides were an absolute boon to people like you (and definitely me) who needed to get their heads around the sorts of issues that these games present.

If you don't have access to them (they were taken down a while ago) a PM to the right person can often produce amazing results.... 

[Strangeways]

It is a problem, and when the guides were removed, the problem became worse. The guides helped newbies, and was definitely the best source of info on these older games. Rec.Games.Pinball archived older repair threads. So it was made even harder. If you look hard - or ask the right people - you will find the guides !

Regarding courses - In the "old days", operators had qualified techs - their qualification was usually an "A Grade" Electrician's certificate. You needed BASIC electrical and then electronic training. You also had to be able to troubleshoot on location. Today, anyone can try their hand at basic repairs without the need to understand the electrical and electronic background as there is help available and most electronic faults can be rectified by replacing boards. The idea of training or courses would be very basic, as the tech needs an electrical background, and to teach electrical / electronic theory, you should be a qualified technician or teacher. There's 240V under the hood, and thats something that has the potential to injure or kill.

I think AMD run a course on Stern and Bally Williams platforms - but no one has ever offered an SS course. I don't think it will ever happen.

[pinsanity]

I think AMD run a course on Stern and Bally Williams platforms - but no one has ever offered an SS course. I don't think it will ever happen.

There's the rub.

Forget about PC based systems, if no-one is capable of repairing these older SS systems they will eventually become little more than obsolescent paperweights by natural effluxion of time.

In Aus, you can already count the number of people who repair these older SS machines on a regular basis on one hand.

I sure don't envision the next generation willing to pick up where people like Strangeways, beaky et al have kept it alive.

[Strangeways]

I think AMD run a course on Stern and Bally Williams platforms - but no one has ever offered an SS course. I don't think it will ever happen.

There's the rub.

Forget about PC based systems, if no-one is capable of repairing these older SS systems they will eventually become little more than obsolescent paperweights by natural effluxion of time.

In Aus, you can already count the number of people who repair these older SS machines on a regular basis on one hand.

I sure don't envision the next generation willing to pick up where people like Strangeways, beaky et al have kept it alive.

What worries me a lot is that I do get a lot of questions regarding old Bally Bingos. There is a growing market, but literally, only a handful of technicians that know their way around the game. This is the sobering thought. These games were described by my Father as "the first computers". I think he was close (The Enigma machine would be just in front of a Bally Bingo)..

Mike at Homepin has been responsible for some fantastic replacement boards that no one else covered off - Zaccaria Gen2 CPU boards and the Hankin boardset. I think the future lies with the technician's ability to swap the boards around. "Hard to find" items like transformers seldom die, so basic crimping and an ability to troubleshoot the problem is where the future lies.

PC based systems are quick and nasty solutions that "live for the moment". Pinball companies will have to train PC techs that have an understanding of operating systems, drivers and hardware. For every motherboard produced this month, they will be superseded the next month - with new drivers that can "break" existing drivers and the host O/S. I had a career in Server based technologies for over 20 years. The change was drastic, and the pinball industry will never be able to emulate the development and technologies fast enough to sustain a viable platform (PC Based). This might sound a bit nasty - the current crop of boutique manufacturers that have chosen a PC Based platform won't succeed. There's a good reason Stern will never move off the tried and trusted boardsets. Ditto Homepin.

As long as people an interested in electronics, pinballs will be repaired. Sadly, the removal of the Pinball guides was a very bad move, as that information was not accessible to all the "recent" newbies". But now thee are Wiki documents etc - the web really opened up the sharing of info (the whole purpose of the web) - and hopefully it will continue. I recall the formation of this forum was to assist and educate pinheads. Everything is free, and I think every problem ever logged was sorted out - eventually !

[beaky]

some times i am glad the repair guides were taken down, as some people treat them as a bible. I then have to explain to them why some of their boards didn't have umpteen dozen wires all over the back of them when they were released  from the bally or wms factory. but they have run for 20 years without the wires in a commercial environment.
some wires are needed and some are not. Not all capacitors need to be replaced with higher values (as per the guides)
I have lost count of how many times people have asked me "why didnt u install the jumper wires" on my wpc driver board.
i tell them "if it fails because it needs the extra wires then i will pay for the postage both ways and do the hacks for free"
there is a lot of useful info in the repair guides but some of it is over kill.
if you need to increase the value of the capacitor on your av board to stop your display from flickering then your display is nearly ready for replacement. again they ran for years with the OEM caps wth no flickering.
I was told by another tech i know "i put the jumper wires on to keep the pintards happy"
sorry if i offend any one here but thats my point of view
 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

This is why I love the forums
What ever the problem is, somebody else has had it
I have never seen any one slammed for asking a dumb question ( I have asked plenty myself)

Never be afraid to ask a question

[Pintoxicated]

There is a lot more to the Pinrepair guides than just board mods, they are affectionately known as the Bible for a good reason.  I doubt there would be anyone here that hasn't gained some sort of benefit from the guides whether it be them directly solving an issue using the guides or having someone else fix their machine thanks to knowledge gained from the guides.

AJ - let me know if would like to know where you might be able to find a copy of them.

[Retropin]

The repair guides were good as they told you where to go looking on your board for your issue and saved you getting out the schematic and looking.. yep, the lazy way!
For SS repairs you only need a basic knowledge of TTL electronics. 7XXX chips etc.
 The logic is pretty much " gate open - gate shut"  and diagnostics can be done with a DMM and or logic probe.

But im with Beaky.. the repairs were seen as the be all and end all  repair guide and some of the stuff I just didn't agree with.

[goodolddays]

Some good discussion and feedback in this thread .. just wanted to mention that a couple of comments made me think about  my current PITA in the DMD world  .. http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=12788.0

"I think every problem ever logged was sorted out - eventually !" .. sadly not mine yet and very few suggestions  

"What ever the problem is, somebody else has had it" .. after a lot of googling can't find anyone mentioning this fault  

Just thought I'd throw it out there ..

Have to agree taking down the pinrepair guides was such a shame .. they had a lot of useful info

[Sinbad79]

Those guides are still around if you search hard enough for them, and I'm sure dozens here have them if you need them.

[Crashramp]

There's obviously some strong opinions on the repair guilde's, personally I think it's a shame they aren't readily available any more but despite that nothing really beats hands on experience in my view. My thought was that I know I'd learn so much more and a lot quicker with the hands on experience with someone who actually knows what they're doing. Unfortunatly it doesn't seem that will happen but I  now have a copy of parts 1,2 and 3 of the Bally guild so that's at least it's a start.

I also don't want to forget to mention this forum, without the advise and help I've found here I'd have ditched my first machine long ago and would never have gone looking for a second. So thanks to all who've answered my questions and helped out along the way. You can be sure it won't be the last time I ask for advice. Probably not even the last time this weekend.