Stern announces new KISS pinball

[Retropin]

Have you thought that maybe Sterns level of QC is the black smudges?... You see it as a fault, Stern sees it as being acceptable, after all - it has passed.

[Strangeways]

Have you thought that maybe Sterns level of QC is the black smudges?... You see it as a fault, Stern sees it as being acceptable, after all - it has passed.

If "anyone" sees this as being acceptable at Stern then there will problems selling future games. I may be a very fussy collector / hobbyist, but there are three KISS Premium buyers waiting to see the build quality "in person" and if I was to tell them that "craters", black smudges, a hand painted Gene head by a 2 year old artist and playfield artwork issues is "acceptable", then I can see their $ going to something else..

[pinnies4me]

Have you thought that maybe Sterns level of QC is the black smudges?... You see it as a fault, Stern sees it as being acceptable, after all - it has passed.

If "anyone" sees this as being acceptable at Stern then there will problems selling future games. I may be a very fussy collector / hobbyist, but there are three KISS Premium buyers waiting to see the build quality "in person" and if I was to tell them that "craters", black smudges, a hand painted Gene head by a 2 year old artist and playfield artwork issues is "acceptable", then I can see their $ going to something else..

I wonder if Stern feels the Kiss Army won't  care?

Stern QC = oxymoron.

[Caveoftreasures]

The heads are hand painted by many different people so how would anyone seriously think every head paint job is going to be perfect. ?

Any car or jetski or any mass produced engineered mechanical device "first" off the production line may have small faults cause as humans we don't get every single thing right the first time.
That's why I have never bought the absolute first shipment of any new Ford, Holden or Toyota for my company vehicles. I let the production line "settle" , work itself out then buy a short or medium time later when the wrinkles have been ironed out.

If you rush in and order a pinball title sight unseen and insist on the very limited LE then you have to accept humans are getting used to the new product, new production line and methods and brand new product.
No company incl Stern can be expected to get it perfect first time every time whether you pay $1, $8,000 or $12,000.

That's why all engineering companies who produce production line products in any industry ask and want customer feedback and that's what helps any company to get it perfect.

If anyone thinks every pinball machine from JJP, Stern or the other companies are going to produce a perfect machine the very first time on a brand new title, they are not being realistic.

No company in the history of pinball ever has.
Every machine is unique. These machines are both hand built and mass produced.
They are NOT flawless diamonds coming out of a jewellery shop and never will be.

Two simple decisions people can make who ARE buying a new pinball title from ANY pinball manufacturer.

1. Wait for the production line to settle and then order.
2. Buy straight away but expect there MAY be a small flaw or imperfection on something built by humans and machines.

Even "restored" 70,s or 80,s or 90,s pinballs from any company in Australia or the USA aren,t going to be perfect and without the uniqueness that every pinball machine comes with.

If u only focus on the 5 percent u don't like on a pinball instead of the 95 percent u do like on a pinball, u are going to drive yourself nuts and everyone else perhaps.

Focus on the positive and not the negative qualities of a pinball machine.
Why, because there has never been a perfect pinball machine and there never will be.

The companies building pins have warranty for a reason.
Every product has a warranty for a reason.

Perfection in this industry and hobby is not realistic.
No one is making anyone have to purchase anything, straight away or after a production line settles.

People should wait for their machines to arrive before declaring doom n gloom.
I see a lot of assumptions and too much focus on the 5 percent and not the 95 percent.

If it ain't perfect to u when it arrives, return it and get a full refund or do a fix with a warranty claim.
Very simple decisions here IF u ain't happy after delivery of any pinball or any product.
Food for thought IMHO. ..........

[Strangeways]

The heads are hand painted by many different people so how would anyone seriously think every head paint job is going to be perfect. ?

No one's asking them to be perfect. Common sense approach is that as soon as a problem is found, then the defective part be put aside and and replaced with a "passed" item.

In the case of the Gene Simmons heads - Whoever painted it, should have thrown it in the bin or sent it back to be repainted. If the trend continues - fire the moron that cannot follow simple lines. Better still, why Can't Stern work out an automated way of painting the heads ?

In every other manufacturing process, QA should be at the component level and then at the completion point. Whoever fitted that head needs to be fired or given an eye test. Whoever allowed the machine to be placed in a box and shipped needs to be fired.

Using the car analogy - Ford used to remove a completed car off the line and then strip the machine bare to see if there were any re occuring manufacturing problems. Every industry has QA. It seems Stern don't.

How the hell this can happen is highly embarrassing - That's why I'm finding it hard to believe.

[MrMaloo]

Was this an issue with Tron ?

Was there a fix ?

I didn't realise there was an issue like this with Tron Nino . I've had my Tron for a couple of years now and haven't noticed any black marks on the balls .. ever !

[Retropin]

The heads are hand painted by many different people so how would anyone seriously think every head paint job is going to be perfect. ?

Any car or jetski or any mass produced engineered mechanical device "first" off the production line may have small faults cause as humans we don't get every single thing right the first time.
That's why I have never bought the absolute first shipment of any new Ford, Holden or Toyota for my company vehicles. I let the production line "settle" , work itself out then buy a short or medium time later when the wrinkles have been ironed out.

If you rush in and order a pinball title sight unseen and insist on the very limited LE then you have to accept humans are getting used to the new product, new production line and methods and brand new product.
No company incl Stern can be expected to get it perfect first time every time whether you pay $1, $8,000 or $12,000.

That's why all engineering companies who produce production line products in any industry ask and want customer feedback and that's what helps any company to get it perfect.

If anyone thinks every pinball machine from JJP, Stern or the other companies are going to produce a perfect machine the very first time on a brand new title, they are not being realistic.

No company in the history of pinball ever has.
Every machine is unique. These machines are both hand built and mass produced.
They are NOT flawless diamonds coming out of a jewellery shop and never will be.

Two simple decisions people can make who ARE buying a new pinball title from ANY pinball manufacturer.

1. Wait for the production line to settle and then order.
2. Buy straight away but expect there MAY be a small flaw or imperfection on something built by humans and machines.

Even "restored" 70,s or 80,s or 90,s pinballs from any company in Australia or the USA are going to be perfect and without the uniqueness that every pinball machine comes with.

If u only focus on the 5 percent u don't like on a pinball instead of the 95 percent u do like on a pinball, u are going to drive yourself nuts and everyone else perhaps.

Focus on the positive and not the negative qualities of a pinball machine.
Why, because there has never been a perfect pinball machine and there never will be.

The companies building pins have warranty for a reason.
Every product has a warranty for a reason.

Perfection in this industry and hobby is not realistic.
No one is making anyone have to purchase anything, straight away or after a production line settles.

People should wait for their machines to arrive before declaring doom n gloom.
I see a lot of assumptions and too much focus on the 5 percent and not the 95 percent.

If it ain't perfect to u when it arrives, return it and get a full refund or do a fix with a warranty claim.
Very simple decisions here IF u ain't happy after delivery of any pinball or any product.
Food for thought IMHO. ..........

Oh come on!  That paint job is an absolute shocker! There are VERY few companies in the world that would let shoddy work like that go out the door unless of course they are just cowboys.
Focus on the positives? - Yeh right.. spend nearly $10,000 and focus on the fact that you could have been ripped more??? 

[Strangeways]

Was this an issue with Tron ?

Was there a fix ?

I didn't realise there was an issue like this with Tron Nino . I've had my Tron for a couple of years now and haven't noticed any black marks on the balls .. ever !

Apparently, the exact issue happened - black marks on the ball and playfield. Has something to do with the black pad on the disk. There was an aftermarket clear pad that can be purchased that alleviates the issue. It seems that not all games have the problem. I don't want crud on my game - so I'm happy to buy the clear pad if need be. Interesting to see your game didn't have the issue.

A lot of these issues are going to pop up now that the game is having it's first week on route in the USA. Fantastic reports so far - but the black crud is not consistent to all the games.

[Caveoftreasures]

Would it be safe to assume ? the heads were painted in a third world company like China or India or by some cut price person/company somewhere ? Probably.
They were probably worried more about their next meal and painting 100 heads an hour or they get the sack ?

Was the head painted perfectly , NO. I agree.
You simply ask the Stern dealer for a replacement.

Has anyone here sent Stern a photo of that head and given them some polite feedback ? That would be constructive.

I will wait and see a lot more of the Kiss pinnies that have been made before I will pass judgement on the overall quality. I personally judge things by looking at the majority not the minority.
Didn't say my approach was perfect or 100 percent correct or everyone's cup of tea, but it is how I judge things.

I understand some people, and at this stage perhaps the minority are a little concerned or focused on having a great as close to perfect machine delivered. In all fairness, that is your right cause it is your hard earnt money and I understand the pre delivery jitters or nervousness.

I just seem to be a little bit less concerned.
I appreciate both sides of the argument on quality control from any product or company.
I am sure Stern is considering the feedback from social media and doing the best they can.
They are here to keep people happy, not meaningly upset anyone I would imagine.

[andypinboy]

The heads are hand painted by many different people so how would anyone seriously think every head paint job is going to be perfect. ?

Any car or jetski or any mass produced engineered mechanical device "first" off the production line may have small faults cause as humans we don't get every single thing right the first time.
That's why I have never bought the absolute first shipment of any new Ford, Holden or Toyota for my company vehicles. I let the production line "settle" , work itself out then buy a short or medium time later when the wrinkles have been ironed out.

If you rush in and order a pinball title sight unseen and insist on the very limited LE then you have to accept humans are getting used to the new product, new production line and methods and brand new product.
No company incl Stern can be expected to get it perfect first time every time whether you pay $1, $8,000 or $12,000.

That's why all engineering companies who produce production line products in any industry ask and want customer feedback and that's what helps any company to get it perfect.

If anyone thinks every pinball machine from JJP, Stern or the other companies are going to produce a perfect machine the very first time on a brand new title, they are not being realistic.

No company in the history of pinball ever has.
Every machine is unique. These machines are both hand built and mass produced.
They are NOT flawless diamonds coming out of a jewellery shop and never will be.

Two simple decisions people can make who ARE buying a new pinball title from ANY pinball manufacturer.

1. Wait for the production line to settle and then order.
2. Buy straight away but expect there MAY be a small flaw or imperfection on something built by humans and machines.

Even "restored" 70,s or 80,s or 90,s pinballs from any company in Australia or the USA are going to be perfect and without the uniqueness that every pinball machine comes with.

If u only focus on the 5 percent u don't like on a pinball instead of the 95 percent u do like on a pinball, u are going to drive yourself nuts and everyone else perhaps.

Focus on the positive and not the negative qualities of a pinball machine.
Why, because there has never been a perfect pinball machine and there never will be.

The companies building pins have warranty for a reason.
Every product has a warranty for a reason.

Perfection in this industry and hobby is not realistic.
No one is making anyone have to purchase anything, straight away or after a production line settles.

People should wait for their machines to arrive before declaring doom n gloom.
I see a lot of assumptions and too much focus on the 5 percent and not the 95 percent.

If it ain't perfect to u when it arrives, return it and get a full refund or do a fix with a warranty claim.
Very simple decisions here IF u ain't happy after delivery of any pinball or any product.
Food for thought IMHO. ..........

Oh come on!  That paint job is an absolute shocker! There are VERY few companies in the world that would let shoddy work like that go out the door unless of course they are just cowboys.
Focus on the positives? - Yeh right.. spend nearly $10,000 and focus on the fact that you could have been ripped more??? 

Not only that, but do I understand this correctly? So the LE's should be the most imperfect? 

[Caveoftreasures]

I wanted to add something for Nino.

I want your Kiss LE to be a fine machine and I really want you to be dam impressed with your machine when it arrives cause I would like to see you become a Stern dealer one day.

Your experience and keen eye would be well suited to sell both brand new and restored machines and grow your business and product lines.

Promoting both new and older machines goes perfectly hand in hand.
I think you would make a quality Stern Dealer just like AMD is.
I think you would get along with Bruce and Michael and all their staff well cause both of you are customer focused and quality focused. It would be a good business relationship for many years if u set it up. Never say never.
I hope it happens one day Nino cause the industry and hobby in Aust would benefit by it...

[Caveoftreasures]

The heads are hand painted by many different people so how would anyone seriously think every head paint job is going to be perfect. ?

Any car or jetski or any mass produced engineered mechanical device "first" off the production line may have small faults cause as humans we don't get every single thing right the first time.
That's why I have never bought the absolute first shipment of any new Ford, Holden or Toyota for my company vehicles. I let the production line "settle" , work itself out then buy a short or medium time later when the wrinkles have been ironed out.

If you rush in and order a pinball title sight unseen and insist on the very limited LE then you have to accept humans are getting used to the new product, new production line and methods and brand new product.
No company incl Stern can be expected to get it perfect first time every time whether you pay $1, $8,000 or $12,000.

That's why all engineering companies who produce production line products in any industry ask and want customer feedback and that's what helps any company to get it perfect.

If anyone thinks every pinball machine from JJP, Stern or the other companies are going to produce a perfect machine the very first time on a brand new title, they are not being realistic.

No company in the history of pinball ever has.
Every machine is unique. These machines are both hand built and mass produced.
They are NOT flawless diamonds coming out of a jewellery shop and never will be.

Two simple decisions people can make who ARE buying a new pinball title from ANY pinball manufacturer.

1. Wait for the production line to settle and then order.
2. Buy straight away but expect there MAY be a small flaw or imperfection on something built by humans and machines.

Even "restored" 70,s or 80,s or 90,s pinballs from any company in Australia or the USA are going to be perfect and without the uniqueness that every pinball machine comes with.

If u only focus on the 5 percent u don't like on a pinball instead of the 95 percent u do like on a pinball, u are going to drive yourself nuts and everyone else perhaps.

Focus on the positive and not the negative qualities of a pinball machine.
Why, because there has never been a perfect pinball machine and there never will be.

The companies building pins have warranty for a reason.
Every product has a warranty for a reason.

Perfection in this industry and hobby is not realistic.
No one is making anyone have to purchase anything, straight away or after a production line settles.

People should wait for their machines to arrive before declaring doom n gloom.
I see a lot of assumptions and too much focus on the 5 percent and not the 95 percent.

If it ain't perfect to u when it arrives, return it and get a full refund or do a fix with a warranty claim.
Very simple decisions here IF u ain't happy after delivery of any pinball or any product.
Food for thought IMHO. ..........

Oh come on!  That paint job is an absolute shocker! There are VERY few companies in the world that would let shoddy work like that go out the door unless of course they are just cowboys.
Focus on the positives? - Yeh right.. spend nearly $10,000 and focus on the fact that you could have been ripped more??? 

Not only that, but do I understand this correctly? So the LE's should be the most imperfect? 

No. Nothing should be imperfect unless you are perfect.

No one or no thing is perfect.

The LE models sometimes go down the line first so they MAY be the machines that have 95 percent quality compared to 100 percent quality till the line and product settles.

If the Pro was first down the line, it MAY be the model with a few imperfections. Just like any first model from a car company, never perfect, but perhaps close.
That's why car companies do service bulletins and make product and line changes, cause they are NOT perfect but are trying their best to make it perfect, if they can.

Anyone got a Perfect car ? It don't exist, never has, never will. But the companies will keep trying. It's all personal taste. Each to their own. That's as fair as I think it will ever get....

[Strangeways]

Would it be safe to assume ? the heads were painted in a third world company like China or India or by some cut price person/company somewhere ? Probably.
They were probably worried more about their next meal and painting 100 heads an hour or they get the sack ?

Was the head painted perfectly , NO. I agree.
You simply ask the Stern dealer for a replacement.

Has anyone here sent Stern a photo of that head and given them some polite feedback ? That would be constructive.

I will wait and see a lot more of the Kiss pinnies that have been made before I will pass judgement on the overall quality. I personally judge things by looking at the majority not the minority.
Didn't say my approach was perfect or 100 percent correct or everyone's cup of tea, but it is how I judge things.

I understand some people, and at this stage perhaps the minority are a little concerned or focused on having a great as close to perfect machine delivered. In all fairness, that is your right cause it is your hard earnt money and I understand the pre delivery jitters or nervousness.

I just seem to be a little bit less concerned.
I appreciate both sides of the argument on quality control from any product or company.
I am sure Stern is considering the feedback from social media and doing the best they can.
They are here to keep people happy, not meaningly upset anyone I would imagine.

Stern are mentioning on FB that most of the work is done - "in house". They proudly mention this on TWD Toppers. I'd say it is done in their factory. What would be the point in having it done overseas - they just moved to a massive new factory.

Everyone agrees that the picture of that head is simply wrong. OK - so a Stern Distributor should replace it ? - Yes. No argument. Should never have made it that far..

My point is that the Stern distributor should not be wasting time dealing with a defective parts that has to be posted and then swapped over. This costs Stern and the dealer - and far far more importantly - it gets US talking about Stern and QA.

The alternative ;

The person who painted it - notices it is bad - throws it away or has is started from scratch again - costs nothing to Stern, nothing to the dealer and we don't notice it.

The person who puts it in the machines - sees it is defective. Same as above.
The person who drops the playfield into the machines - sees it is defective. Same as above.
The person who playtests the machines - sees it is defective. Same as above.
The person who does the final checks - - sees it is defective. Same as above.

So FIVE Stern employees have quite possibly seen the issue. The QA guy should have done his job.

So the DEALER / Distributor has to deal with it ? After 5 Stern employees have seen it and COULD have done something about it ?

That is not a professional QA setup.

It is kinda like the dimpling issue and the excuse to keep playing it so it "blends in". If the process was done correct the first time, then no one needs to become involved.

[Strangeways]

I wanted to add something for Nino.

I want your Kiss LE to be a fine machine and I really want you to be dam impressed with your machine when it arrives cause I would like to see you become a Stern dealer one day.

Your experience and keen eye would be well suited to sell both brand new and restored machines and grow your business and product lines.

Promoting both new and older machines goes perfectly hand in hand.
I think you would make a quality Stern Dealer just like AMD is.
I think you would get along with Bruce and Michael and all their staff well cause both of you are customer focused and quality focused. It would be a good business relationship for many years if u set it up. Never say never.
I hope it happens one day Nino cause the industry and hobby in Aust would benefit by it...

I have a horse in this race. I WANT this game to sell by the container load. I want my mates to buy a premium. I've spent hours on the phone convincing them to part with their money..

We have the insane issue with the Topper being an additional cost.
Then the armor packs being an additional cost.

People think this does not hurt Stern sales - they have no clue what they are saying. Case in point ;

Two friends were going to buy a Premium. They found out about the armor packs. They don't care for the extra game features, but they just saved $1500 by NOT ordering a Premium, settling for a PRO with $500 Armour pack.. That is the dumbest marketing strategy I've ever heard of. you CAN have a game that looks as good as a Premium / LE for at least $1500 cheaper - or $3500 if you missed out on an LE.

Machine standards - Put the restored Addams Family I completed next to TWD LE. I can't drop the standard of the Addams, but i can see TWD LE will struggle to compete unless it is straight out of the box. 50 test games on the addams and not one single dimple. 50 more games on TWD LE and it looks like a moonscape. If Stern dealers don't think this is an issue, they need to pull their head out of the sand.

I'd LOVE to promote Sterns. But they have to raise their standards to compete with High End Restorations. Buck for buck, the High End Collectors want really nice games - and I'm sure if Stern raised their standards - they would get a crapload more sales.

[Caveoftreasures]

Humans equal non perfection results when dealing with mass production.
Fact of life unfortunately.

Your Gene Simmonds head might be perfect Nino.

Stern and every company on earth has a warranty for a reason. Nothing is perfect.

Even your restoration business would offer warranty Nino.
Just incAse you or another human involved in your business makes a mistake or doesn't see something during the massive labour task you and Stern share. Is that a fair call about warranty and your warranty.
It exists cause people strive for perfection but sometimes don't hit the mark ?

I think the quality issue has existed since pinballs were invented and probably wil exist forever cause humans build these things. What can u do but try your best ?