Stern announces new KISS pinball

[Caveoftreasures]

Stern have new code people from the next generation talent pool but they won't give them enough leeway to let them stretch their coding legs due to the stupid belief amongst the Stern faithful that every pin code wise has to be left in the hands of the old guard from the 1980's for them to consider buying one.

This dinosaur philosophy is one of the reasons why Stern is constantly being left behind in terms of new development and is always playing catchup with other companies regardless of whether they squeeze out another title 2-3 times a year versus one every three years.

Regarding JJP - every buyer including myself from the original 1000 LE preorderers knew from the outset there would be hiccups and delays. The difference between JJP and some of other current boutique "manufacturers" is that the former was not only approachable in terms of professionalism but kept everyone up to date with what was happening including unforeseen circumstances. And code update 6.04 for WOZ should be released in the next week or so.

A simple concept that some of these startups just cannot seem to grasp or will not accept is that an approachable personality goes a long way with those consumers who have the disposable income to purchase a NIB machine. Not everyone has the inclination or desire to truckle over some chestpuffing blowhard in fact the opposite usually rings true.

I understood the first half of your post and you totally totally lost me with the 2nd half of the post cause I could not work out what you were even talking about !

Firstly, the guess that only the old guard from the 1980,s are the only programmers allowed to do programming of code at Stern I feel is totally incorrect.
Stern have announced 4 new young programmers in the past 12 months.
Also, unless any person visits Stern direct at the factory & is told directly from management as to who does and who doesn't do the code, it's all a guess.
Sure, the big programming names are thrown about, but Stern has made it clear that it's a team of people doing code on each title, not just one person.

It would be nice to see factual posts that include more facts & more constructive info than emotional negative criticism.

In the pinball world we sold be all looking for constructive answers/soloutions versus plain old bagging.
I guess some people just love to hate & others like to support our hobby/industry's big players.
Each to their own.

[pinball god]

I don't mind some stern titles and kiss looks the goods, but it was put out there that its better to have a game unfinished than waiting. Unfortunately I maybe the few who can wait. I don't need to download inferior copies of movies because I can't wait for them to hit Oz. So I'd prefer if Stern to ship games with close to complete coding in that most inserts and targets etc award or achieve something. Your acdc is a pearla because of its rule set and it being there to enjoy. To be fair I don't know what's missing or wrong with kiss if anything. But I do like a product that is complete. Bugs I can live with, with the promise of fixes in a timely fashion.

[Caveoftreasures]

Never bought nib but for me, I'd rather wait and get a good player than what I'm hearing. A bit like buying a star wars 1000 piece jig saw puzzle and missing the middle 100 pieces. I'm a star wars fan but that'd be pushing the friendship

It's not that bad mate lol it's actually not to bad out of the box :) I mean I haven't got to the wizard mode yet lol there's super modes multiballs I think combos :) I agree there's inserts not coded but that'll happen but no where near as bad as Met & TWD and they are both two of the best games around. Having said that a big update will be nice. My advice just wait and when codes finished then buy it's no secret that Stern are slow coding lol

Add the fact that they have moved factory on the run and have added a lot of staff and have had two fulltime production lines up and running with about 6 different titles still being produced daily at the factory, and they still can't keep up with the orders and they are running flat out at capacity with a world wide boom, and it's probably easy to see why Stern are running flat chat & have probably been surprised at the demand they are experiencing, and the icing of the cake being final code updates is behind.

Ian like you Pete, I am happy for the 80 or 90 percent out of 100 I get from Stern upfront & am cool to wait for the final icing. I focus on the majority of the good/great I get as a Stern frequent consumer.

Nino made a point about Star Trek Next Gen but it also had at least one or two code updates after sale and it was when the pinball industry was at its biggest with many more staff and customers pro rata.
Comparing the industry then and the industry now isn't comparing apples to apples.
The industry is on its way up from oblivion versus at its peak in a different era.

Let's see how long the Kiss code update takes.
I am hearing that it's due very soon after sending a email to the factory.

Either way, the Kiss pinball is stunning to see in person.
That's one thing I am sure we all agree on. Lol

[Caveoftreasures]

I don't mind some stern titles and kiss looks the goods, but it was put out there that its better to have a game unfinished than waiting. Unfortunately I maybe the few who can wait. I don't need to download inferior copies of movies because I can't wait for them to hit Oz. So I'd prefer if Stern to ship games with close to complete coding in that most inserts and targets etc award or achieve something. Your acdc is a pearla because of its rule set and it being there to enjoy. To be fair I don't know what's missing or wrong with kiss if anything. But I do like a product that is complete. Bugs I can live with, with the promise of fixes in a timely fashion.

It's a good point.
The only issue is that Stern & JJP limit the LE production run to keep resale values high and to make machines highly collectable so if like Nino, you decide to buy a model above the Pro, in order to get one, you have t buy early & like all releases of series one anything, u have to live with a code update from time to time.

That's one reason I always buy the Pro from Stern.
I can wait for the bugs to be ironed out both physically and code wise, then I get the machine that is series 2 so to speak which like cars or jetskis or anything technical, waiting can be most beneficial.

As a LE buyer, you have to be prepared with any company to wait for updates etc.
it's either that or buy the Pro after the first rush wave has finished lining up.

Go the Pro always I say.
Never played a Pro that I didn't think was absolute value for $.

[pinball god]

Didn't know pros are finished and le's may not be. My stern ignorance in this case. 

[GORGAR 1]

Didn't know pros are finished and le's may not be. My stern ignorance in this case.  

Nah all the same rule set really-we all know Stern get the games out quick with some pretty cool themes then the code catches up its been that way for years, I've had it with Metallica TWD not as much with ACDC these are my experience, now if you buy a game from Stern you have to be patient and it's hard for me to but that's how it is :) right or wrong Who knows!  but that's the way it is now KISS is one of the better games out of the box code wise and as Brett mentioned they have employed more younger code guys so it may speed things up I'm not sure but we are lucky they are pumping out pinball and I'm thankful for that. The house collector does expect deeper rules than years ago when most but not all games where sited with basic code.

That's my thoughts anyway.

[Caveoftreasures]

Didn't know pros are finished and le's may not be. My stern ignorance in this case. 

stern has historically released code for Pro bug fixes first cause it's easier. A lot more code on the LE models.
More moving parts and a few extra features req code.

If u look at Pro code update lists, usually half the additions.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Why is code updates even being discussed?
Stern has been doing it this way for years

It took 2-3 years for them to finish the code for TDK, and that is an eight year old game

[pinnies4me]

Why is code updates even being discussed?
Stern has been doing it this way for years

It took 2-3 years for them to finish the code for TDK, and that is an eight year old game

As long as the fans keep handing over the cash Stern is not under any pressure to get the games right when they ship. Business only gets away with what its customers allow it to.

[GORGAR 1]

Why is code updates even being discussed?
Stern has been doing it this way for years

It took 2-3 years for them to finish the code for TDK, and that is an eight year old game

As long as the fans keep handing over the cash Stern is not under any pressure to get the games right when they ship. Business only gets away with what its customers allow it to.

That's right Sterns doing something right :) and there's still people handing over money and waiting 3 years for delivery go figure lol

[pinnies4me]

Why is code updates even being discussed?
Stern has been doing it this way for years

It took 2-3 years for them to finish the code for TDK, and that is an eight year old game

As long as the fans keep handing over the cash Stern is not under any pressure to get the games right when they ship. Business only gets away with what its customers allow it to.

That's right Sterns doing something right :) and there's still people handing over money and waiting 3 years for delivery go figure lol

Well if getting away with that is doing something right, then Stern certainly are doing so in spades! lol

[Strangeways]

Never bought nib but for me, I'd rather wait and get a good player than what I'm hearing. A bit like buying a star wars 1000 piece jig saw puzzle and missing the middle 100 pieces. I'm a star wars fan but that'd be pushing the friendship

It's not that bad mate lol it's actually not to bad out of the box :) I mean I haven't got to the wizard mode yet lol there's super modes multiballs I think combos :) I agree there's inserts not coded but that'll happen but no where near as bad as Met & TWD and they are both two of the best games around. Having said that a big update will be nice. My advice just wait and when codes finished then buy it's no secret that Stern are slow coding lol

Add the fact that they have moved factory on the run and have added a lot of staff and have had two fulltime production lines up and running with about 6 different titles still being produced daily at the factory, and they still can't keep up with the orders and they are running flat out at capacity with a world wide boom, and it's probably easy to see why Stern are running flat chat & have probably been surprised at the demand they are experiencing, and the icing of the cake being final code updates is behind.

Ian like you Pete, I am happy for the 80 or 90 percent out of 100 I get from Stern upfront & am cool to wait for the final icing. I focus on the majority of the good/great I get as a Stern frequent consumer.

Nino made a point about Star Trek Next Gen but it also had at least one or two code updates after sale and it was when the pinball industry was at its biggest with many more staff and customers pro rata.
Comparing the industry then and the industry now isn't comparing apples to apples.
The industry is on its way up from oblivion versus at its peak in a different era.

Let's see how long the Kiss code update takes.
I am hearing that it's due very soon after sending a email to the factory.

Either way, the Kiss pinball is stunning to see in person.
That's one thing I am sure we all agree on. Lol

We were told it would definitely be "around Christmas". That post, and several others have been selectively removed from the Stern Facebook page.

Your other point regarding industry comparison further proves my point. Back when ST TNG was released, there was no home market. Operators bought whatever the manufacturer produced. It was harder to update code due to the fact operators would rely on a distributor to provide them with the rare updates (on ROMs). Machine code was done at the point of manufacturing. The ratio of home owners vs operators is heavily tipping towards home owners. The fact is that several KISS fans passed on the Premiums due to warranty support (poor playfield clears on previous releases) and the lack of code development. But they keep updating GOT !

Why is code updates even being discussed?
Stern has been doing it this way for years

It took 2-3 years for them to finish the code for TDK, and that is an eight year old game

Because consumers accept it ? Because KISS buyers were told there would be updates so we can enjoy our $11,500 ornaments ?

My NIB experience was an extremely positive one (initially). I was told not to turn the game on and immediately update the shipping code. so I swapped out the memory card. The first game had the sound cutting out, which Stern knew about at the time of shipping. Here we are, 6 months later, with the sound problems not fixed. Many playfield features are simply not included (Cities, Colossal Bonus, no sounds on inlanes etc etc). So this is "normal" for Stern buyers ?

Using that analogy, I'll go out and buy a new Holden. Indicators are installed, but not working. The headlights are installed but not working. The CD / Radio has no volume and the windows should be able to go down by Christmas ! This will all be addressed after we finish marketing the next model.

Stern should charge accordingly. The finished game is worth $11,500. My LE has incomplete code, so I'll pay 50% now, and 50% when they complete the game. Of course this is unrealistic, but this is what NIB buyer SHOULD expect ? I thought is was far fetched until I experienced it.

code updates as "enhancements" - like what Stern have done with TWD = Fantastic. I love the idea. Updates resulting from fan feedback = awesome.

But code updates 6 months late (to fix shipping code issues) because Stern are too "busy" with code updates for NEW games so they can increase lagging sales ? what about CURRENT customers with games that need code to make the game playable ? Every single person that has played my LE has noticed the sound issue. That's FANTASTIC advertising. "Oh, that will be fixed one day when Stern complete the code"

If Stern or anyone else things this is not adversely affecting sales, then think again. It is not acceptable for a new product.

[Retropin]

Why is code updates even being discussed?
Stern has been doing it this way for years

It took 2-3 years for them to finish the code for TDK, and that is an eight year old game

As long as the fans keep handing over the cash Stern is not under any pressure to get the games right when they ship. Business only gets away with what its customers allow it to.

That's right Sterns doing something right :) and there's still people handing over money and waiting 3 years for delivery go figure lol

Well if getting away with that is doing something right, then Stern certainly are doing so in spades! lol

True but do remember that people are doing just that for companies that have never yet produced a pinball machine. They then cross their fingers for a few years and PRAY that the machine will eventuate. Then they pray it will look the goods.. then pray that it plays well... then  pray that the manufacturing quality is as expected.

Is an odd game is pinball...

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Yes, but there a many companies building cars

Right now there is only one volume builderof pinball machines
If you want a NIB machine, you have to have it theStern way

[pinnies4me]

Right now there is only one volume builderof pinball machines
If you want a NIB machine, you have to have it theStern way

Well I am glad they are around still making games, but its a pity they take advantage of being the major producer.

True but do remember that people are doing just that for companies that have never yet produced a pinball machine. They then cross their fingers for a few years and PRAY that the machine will eventuate. Then they pray it will look the goods.. then pray that it plays well... then  pray that the manufacturing quality is as expected.

Is an odd game is pinball...

It is the way isn't it? I have only once gone on the "pay and pray" line, don't think I have the stomach for it any more!

It was harder to update code due to the fact operators would rely on a distributor to provide them with the rare updates (on ROMs). Machine code was done at the point of manufacturing.

That'll be one of Stern's arguments - it's easy to update these days.