Stern announces new KISS pinball

[Cow Corner]

It's Stern, this is how they roll. Nothing new here.
If you buy a new game from Stern expect the code rollercoaster and cross your fingers that the game gets completed to your satisfaction because there is a very good chance it won't be.
The only things you can count on from Stern are price hikes and cost cutting.
 

[Toads]

Another update for game of thrones. No mention of kiss

[Strangeways]

Yes, but there a many companies building cars

Right now there is only one volume builderof pinball machines
If you want a NIB machine, you have to have it theStern way

Stern have been bailed out twice in recent times because of cost cutting and other issues. I'm GLAD investors saved Stern, but having said that, JJP have made one game (ok - it has taken 4 years longer than it should have) - but that game (WOZ) caused the ripple effect of Stern having to lift their standards. So what happens when JJP improve their build time ? Spooky Pinball / Heighway.. Stern knows it's about to change again.

"The Stern way" - Not necessarily - and this I've seen first hand. I had two customers want to purchase a KISS Premium. So I invited them to my place to play my LE. The first immediately noticed the sound issues, and backed out. He since bought my last TZ as a High End Restoration. This is based PURELY on the sound / code issues. The second customer is sitting on the fence, and was waiting to see if the code updates were worth the $ (no code update = customer in limbo).

Cue the "Nino is a Stern basher" argument. Bollocks - Inviting people into my home and convincing them "everything will be alright once the code gets updated" does not work for the average pinball enthusiast. Just imagine APR saying - "We provide the highest quality restoration work. Please just accept the fact that the gumball machine does not work, the magnets don't pulse, and the clock won't spin. We are currently busy restoring an Indy, so we will look at your TZ next week. Or the week after. Maybe next month.." I'd be out of business in a week (or just be considered a dealer  ).

It's Stern, this is how they roll. Nothing new here.
If you buy a new game from Stern expect the code rollercoaster and cross your fingers that the game gets completed to your satisfaction because there is a very good chance it won't be.
The only things you can count on from Stern are price hikes and cost cutting.
 

I'd love to change that.

Why can't we expect the game that rolls off the floor is 100% coded. The ONLY updates will be for enhancements, or fixes.

Moving factories, having 40 production lines, hiring 65790 staff means nothing to customers. Having a 100% completed game is what sells product. Stern needs to change, not US.

[Strangeways]

Another update for game of thrones. No mention of kiss

That's a joke. So how many GoT update thus far ? I'd say that's at least it's fifth. Buggy software ? Not enough sales ? 

[Cow Corner]

The only thing that will change it is if people stop buying Stern NIB games but that is not about to happen any time soon as there will always be plenty of lemmings lining up to buy the next incomplete game.
Right now they have the pinball community and dealers by the balls and they know it.

[GORGAR 1]

A good Stern thread always gets AP up and running lol

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Nino, i know you are not a Stern basher

But I don't think JJP will be here in 5 years
Highway shows promise, but time will tell
Spooky pinball seems to be happy being a low run company, no threat to Stern
And we have yet to see Mikes Thunderbirds

Cannot see Stern being g under any pressure to improve
L

[Strangeways]

A good Stern thread always gets AP up and running lol

nothing better than a good "stern" debate 

[oldskool1969]

A good Stern thread always gets AP up and running lol

nothing better than a good "stern" debate 

But there is nothing to debate, I think we all know the facts about this product. 

[Caveoftreasures]

I am happy cause I have heard the word Stern said 100 times in the last 20 posts. Lol

Pinball machines are just like any series 1 release of any new car.
They are sent out, tested & examined, the feedback is given to the factory and the physical & software updates are made and the car is changed accordingly.
That's why there are Series 2 & series 3 releases on all products.
At least with Stern, when the code update is made, everyone has the same machine. Identical.

But with cars, the series 1 buyers never get the physical changes & updates the series 2 buyer gets.
That would piss me off a lot more, hence I never buy series1 anything.
The car companies never get it right or perfect on product release & they have billions, so how do people think a reviving Stern can ever get it right in a market climbing out of oblivion !
I am just happy we still have a pinball industry manufacturing industry that is still alive & improving everyday.

No one ever said the products were perfect but they are trying.

One point I do want to make Nino is that you have a few year wait on machines in your APR business apparently & you have always said "people will wait" so I sometimes scratch my head when u say you are pissed u have had to wait 6 months for Stern to complete a pinball with code ! !

In this industry, none of us can have our cake & eat it too.

Anyway, it is what it is.
Perfection takes time, and it won't happen overnight but it will happen.

[Caveoftreasures]

I read this from Stern online re someone asking about code for a title other than GOT.

(Message start from Stern as at today's date below)

Sorry. That's just not how it works. Some updates are extremely complex and have quite a bit of code. Some are very light and are basically bug fixes. In the case of this particular update you are seeing here only a handful of changes have been made.

In the case of the upcoming WWE update you will see a much more comprehensive list of changes.

Different development teams within our company are assigned different projects and work at different speeds for a variety of factors.

Stern remains committed to providing quality code.

(Message end from Stern)

[Retropin]

Heres a solution for all you Stern chaps out there. Its obvious that some don't mind waiting for code updates while some do. As for the continual car analogy, its utter tripe as a series 1 car is still a complete car.. you don't take it in for updates so the thing will drive another 100klms do you?

Anyway... new Sterns are now some $12K... that's an awful lot of moolah. Sterns marketing ploy is that IF you want to own a title you have to buy incomplete to secure it ( its a pretty shithouse situation). So we end up with people like Nino who have to buy in order to own whether they like it or not. LE's are just that.. well, meant to be limited edition. In all fairness, these games should come fully coded... but they don't.

So a 12K machine is sold for $10K and if you want code updates then you buy them from Stern.. complete code is $2K. Or you can keep your $10K version as it is.

No hang on a minute.. that wont work as it still means Stern have to have completed code as an added extra and completing code is Sterns achilles heel.

Ok - plan B.

You all pay a deposit to secure a game..LE..Pro whatever but don't pay the full amount till code is finished and then you get your game... now this is fair to both parties because at the moment Stern are taking your money for something they don't have.

Oh.. forgot, its pinball and this is accepted practice.

Ok everyone, move along, nothing to see here

[Pop Bumper Pete]

I was right, it took almost two years for Stern to complete the code for Batman

two years is too long



but then again, updating code is not new just for Stern
I know I have had to update the ROM on The Getaway and for fish tales

[Strangeways]

I am happy cause I have heard the word Stern said 100 times in the last 20 posts. Lol

Pinball machines are just like any series 1 release of any new car.
They are sent out, tested & examined, the feedback is given to the factory and the physical & software updates are made and the car is changed accordingly.
That's why there are Series 2 & series 3 releases on all products.
At least with Stern, when the code update is made, everyone has the same machine. Identical.

But with cars, the series 1 buyers never get the physical changes & updates the series 2 buyer gets.
That would piss me off a lot more, hence I never buy series1 anything.
The car companies never get it right or perfect on product release & they have billions, so how do people think a reviving Stern can ever get it right in a market climbing out of oblivion !
I am just happy we still have a pinball industry manufacturing industry that is still alive & improving everyday.

No one ever said the products were perfect but they are trying.

One point I do want to make Nino is that you have a few year wait on machines in your APR business apparently & you have always said "people will wait" so I sometimes scratch my head when u say you are pissed u have had to wait 6 months for Stern to complete a pinball with code ! !

In this industry, none of us can have our cake & eat it too.

Anyway, it is what it is.
Perfection takes time, and it won't happen overnight but it will happen.

Here's the latest FB posting - "We don't necessarily update games in the order they were released. The process is much more complex. We release code updates frequently, and will continue to do so".

So let me apply that to your comments above (bold);

At the time of payment, APR promise that Twilight Zone is fully and completely restored. Everything works - perfectly. The last warranty issue reported was years ago (was a shipping problem on a ST TNG)

At the time of payment, Stern promise a "shipping code" version of an incomplete game. You can buy side armor, toppers and fancy shooter knobs. At the time you receive your game, you already have a warranty claim, that is waiting on code updates, or could be faulty SD cards. The waiting period to complete the game depends on how well the subsequent game sells, and whether our coders are too busy working on Jaws, Muppets or Ghostbusters. We promise a code update to fix all these issues "around Christmas - but we are not sure what year.

Don't confuse "Waiting for a completed game" with "Waiting on a new game to be completed".

We apply Stern's model of NIB sales to pinball restoration - At the time of payment, Stern promise a Twilight Zone, with custom topper, custom siderails and a custom plunger knob (Extra $1500). As consumers are already accustomed to, the Gumball machine is currently in development, the upper flippers are disabled and the mini playfield don't work. We will finished the game after we have completed an Indiana Jones, Addams Family and Fishtales.

As others have pointed out, people will respond with their wallets. I've now seen it first hand. I'm not smirking about this, I'd rather the pinhead bought a KISS Premium to be honest.

[GORGAR 1]

I am happy cause I have heard the word Stern said 100 times in the last 20 posts. Lol

Pinball machines are just like any series 1 release of any new car.
They are sent out, tested & examined, the feedback is given to the factory and the physical & software updates are made and the car is changed accordingly.
That's why there are Series 2 & series 3 releases on all products.
At least with Stern, when the code update is made, everyone has the same machine. Identical.

But with cars, the series 1 buyers never get the physical changes & updates the series 2 buyer gets.
That would piss me off a lot more, hence I never buy series1 anything.
The car companies never get it right or perfect on product release & they have billions, so how do people think a reviving Stern can ever get it right in a market climbing out of oblivion !
I am just happy we still have a pinball industry manufacturing industry that is still alive & improving everyday.

No one ever said the products were perfect but they are trying.

One point I do want to make Nino is that you have a few year wait on machines in your APR business apparently & you have always said "people will wait" so I sometimes scratch my head when u say you are pissed u have had to wait 6 months for Stern to complete a pinball with code ! !

In this industry, none of us can have our cake & eat it too.

Anyway, it is what it is.
Perfection takes time, and it won't happen overnight but it will happen.

Well said mate :)


Great to see AP running hot thx Stern-although half these posts I can't read lol