Stern Thincoat - Dimples & Craters

[Strangeways]

Nino, I think there's no doubt whatsoever the TWD clear is "too soft". It could be an incorrect mix - if this happens in a sense it never really "cures". Was just wondering if there is a way to measure the thickness of the clear scientifically (it is done on cars to check for panel work - but I assume this requires a metal rather than wood base).

It could be the mix or the product itself. If Stern went down the path of a ceramic clear, they would not have these issues. This is a viable and constructive outcome.

We are awaiting Stern / AMD's response. They are aware of the issue.

[swinks]

just to add here are a few issues after 2900 to 4000 plays

met - 2900 plays
kiss - 3000 plays
and a jjp woz after 4000 plays

so clear coat is a factor and so seems the direct printing like woz as apparently has big chucks chipping off on not just the odd machine.

[Crashramp]

Yiks!
For the money people fork out for these I'd expect a hell of a lot better. Doesn't make me want to rush out for a NIB anytime soon.

[pinball god]

Yep I'm out

[Strangeways]

Of course we are only seeing the bad playfields. There could be a much higher percentage of playfields without wear.

MET - That's a factory defect. Looks like no clear

KISS - I'm seeing mylar to the left, right and front of the scoop hole. I'm also seeing dimples in the mylar to the right. If there are dimples in the mylar, it almost proves my theory that the hardened layer of ply is the underside. how you can get a dimple through mylar, clear, print and then wood is baffling.

WOZ - That's a factory defect. Maybe typical of 40,000 or 400,000 games. Not even a Bally / Williams would have that much wear unless it was neglected or a defect.


What is great is that the other manufacturers can see what is not accepted (any longer). Gone are the days of "blending in" and "oh, thats normal for a new pinball". If I was paying $3000, I'd accept it. But we are being asked to pay over $10,000 for these games. You can get a professionally cleared ceramic clearcoat for under $1000.

I'm looking forward to Stern's advice on TWD LE, and their findings on the dimpling issues.

But the comment Rob makes is getting louder - "I'm out" will be something Stern won't want to hear - people will respond with their wallets.

[Caveoftreasures]

Are people cleaning their balls properly ? (Pinballs).

Are people cleaning the playfields properly ?

Even the games that are flogged to death at Timezone with a lot more plays than mentioned above have never shown these issues.

[pinnies4me]

Stern are providing games with pre-dirtied balls and playfields now?

[Strangeways]

Are people cleaning their balls properly ? (Pinballs).

Are people cleaning the playfields properly ?

Even the games that are flogged to death at Timezone with a lot more plays than mentioned above have never shown these issues.

Have you read this thread in its entirety ? The problem is with the clearcoat process - has nothing to do with the ball selection. The factory balls provided in TWD LE were thrown in the bin and NEW polished balls were used. These same balls were used in ALL testing.

No need to clean TWD LE. It simply has not had enough games and apart from the moonscape appearance, it looks brand new.

The "flogged" games prove the problem. This is the reason for the "hit and miss" in Stern's clearcoat process. "Unflogged" games look like they have had thousands of plays.

[robm]

I can confirm the previous owners of the avengers pictured previously also very regularly cleaned the machine and replaced balls

[andypinboy]

Yikes alright. That mylared Kiss is a worry - surely it was dented then mylared? WOZ is crazy bad - MET too. It begs the qn - why are these so soft/vulnerable compared to bally/williams? Surely it's ply & clear-coat? These are too deep to be just clear. And is it a "planned obsolescence"? - ie Stern might want to sell playfields? I sure hope not.

[Brunswick Brawler]

I just heard a podcast on the weekend talking about the WOZ issue.  It was a known defect to the printing process in the early machines.

The answer to the owner who was the podcast host was "send us $500 for a new playfield and do the play field swap over yourself".  I'm sure they said it nicer than that, but the conclusion is the same.
 

...As a minimum JJP should have sent out a free playfield, but as it had just expired the two year warranty, that was the offer.  JJP doesn't seem to understand 'latent defect' laws.

Anyone can get the production wrong.  The test of a good company is how they deal with the issue.  I'm keen to see how Stern respond to TWD LE problem.  I'd amazed if they didn't send out a free playfield at their cost.

[Strangeways]

I just heard a podcast on the weekend talking about the WOZ issue.  It was a known defect to the printing process in the early machines.

The answer to the owner who was the podcast host was "send us $500 for a new playfield and do the play field swap over yourself".  I'm sure they said it nicer than that, but the conclusion is the same.
 

...As a minimum JJP should have sent out a free playfield, but as it had just expired the two year warranty, that was the offer.  JJP doesn't seem to understand 'latent defect' laws.

Anyone can get the production wrong.  The test of a good company is how they deal with the issue.  I'm keen to see how Stern respond to TWD LE problem.  I'd amazed if they didn't send out a free playfield at their cost.

We are well advanced down that path. Joe from "Kids Just Wanna Have Fun" has seen TWD LE and he has already suggested several options for me - which have been VERY positive. That's a level of customer service that is exceptional. This issue has been moved up the chain - that is 100%.

[pinball god]

I just heard a podcast on the weekend talking about the WOZ issue.  It was a known defect to the printing process in the early machines.

The answer to the owner who was the podcast host was "send us $500 for a new playfield and do the play field swap over yourself".  I'm sure they said it nicer than that, but the conclusion is the same.
 

...As a minimum JJP should have sent out a free playfield, but as it had just expired the two year warranty, that was the offer.  JJP doesn't seem to understand 'latent defect' laws.

Anyone can get the production wrong.  The test of a good company is how they deal with the issue.  I'm keen to see how Stern respond to TWD LE problem.  I'd amazed if they didn't send out a free playfield at their cost.

jeez that was big of them. I suppose they could have asked for $1000. Really pay and do the work....hmmmmmm........like I said, I'm out

[Crashramp]

I have to say I was out on the JJP business model along time before seeing these pictures but JJP customer service stories like those above just serve as a reminder as to why I wouldn't bother with them.

[pinball god]

I have to say I was out on the JJP business model along time before seeing these pictures but JJP customer service stories like those above just serve as a reminder as to why I wouldn't bother with them.

I thought about the hobbit, but figured I have a problem playing the new games trying to follow the lit up inserts, woz just has a shit load of lights on all the time for no reason. And then by the time it gets released in 2055 I probably would have lost interest in pinball......namely I'd be dead