Stern Thincoat - Dimples & Craters

[Pop Bumper Pete]

These days, customers want the very best for their dollar, so it's normal to be highly quality or end result finish focused as you are. Being someone who does restorations, your expectations were always going to be probably higher than anyone else's and is to be expected. Maybe you won't bother pulling your new machine to a 1000 bits and you might be happy with the factory finish. ?

sorry, but when you are spending $8000/ $10000 (or more) then you should get a product that is hard wearing

I don't see why you are defending Stern over this

[robm]

What I am wondering about your Walking a Dead LE, is what the issue really is.
Until a few photos, I can only guess. Are the divets/dimples occurring cause the wood is too soft, regardless of clearcoat thickness, or is it just a normal microscopic wear n tear dimples from normal play that dissapears after cleaning or polishing ? Hard to understand the issue cause I have not heard or seen it before on a new Stern where new divets/dimples are appearing.

Its not an isolated incident mate, my post a few pages back showed it on a Spiderman with low plays, and my ACDC also has it with low plays. Others have also mentioned it on their own games.  Jady may be onto something with the layers of ply theory....

I too like Nino, am not a Stern basher - in fact right now in my working collection (not including projects) i have more new Sterns than Bally/Williams, and i am absolutely loving playing them.

To further support Nino's comments about after market clear coating, i had a look at a Monster Bash that was clear coated and has been played a lot over the last 4 years - absolutely no sign of any wear, yellowing or dimpling, still looks amazing.

[GORGAR 1]

As I said earlier My Tron & TWD & ACDC had very minimal dimples but ST had a few that's maybe due to color tones that showed them up easier,  to be honest it never really worried me I mean that ball is hard and it'll do damage its pinball :) some even put plastic protectors on to save damage. If Stern spent more money putting 10 layers of clear on then we'd all be complaining about price increases lol remember it's made for operators to put on site and make money :) op's probably don't care less as long as coins keep coming in.
I know other guys with NEW games and I've never heard them complain.

[Strangeways]

As I said earlier My Tron & TWD & ACDC had very minimal dimples but ST had a few that's maybe due to color tones that showed them up easier and to be honest it never really worried me I mean that ball is hard and it'll do damage its pinball :) some even put plastic protectors on to save damage. If Stern spent more money putting 10 layers of clear on then we'd all be complaining about price increase lol remember it's made for operators to put on site and make money.

They are going to be present on every game that has had a thin clearcoat. Industry standard has never had a thin clearcoat like this. I've literally stopped playing TWD LE as I'm concerned about further damage - which is a bit overboard, but I've asked other NIB Stern buyers to look at this machine before I write to Stern (third time !). Something needs to be done as it is definitely affecting potential sales.

I'd like to add that the magnets themselves have the divots. So the fact is clear that the ball is creating this issue. Nothing to do with timber etc.

[GORGAR 1]

As I said earlier My Tron & TWD & ACDC had very minimal dimples but ST had a few that's maybe due to color tones that showed them up easier and to be honest it never really worried me I mean that ball is hard and it'll do damage its pinball :) some even put plastic protectors on to save damage. If Stern spent more money putting 10 layers of clear on then we'd all be complaining about price increase lol remember it's made for operators to put on site and make money.

They are going to be present on every game that has had a thin clearcoat. Industry standard has never had a thin clearcoat like this. I've literally stopped playing TWD LE as I'm concerned about further damage - which is a bit overboard, but I've asked other NIB Stern buyers to look at this machine before I write to Stern (third time !). Something needs to be done as it is definitely affecting potential sales.

I'd like to add that the magnets themselves have the divots. So the fact is clear that the ball is creating this issue. Nothing to do with timber etc.

Maybe a faulty PF Nino?  I'm not trying to be smart just a thought as I can honestly say my WD I struggle to see many and it's a pro!

[MartyJ]

I've had two NIB Sterns now.

In regards to the dimples, I think it depends on the game and whether there are lots of air balls / toys spitting balls out.

On my Metallica, there is factory mylar down in these areas and to be honest I've not found any dimples.  However the overall clear is fairly thin.  I would like to see another 2 - 3 coats on at the factory, but as Pete pointed out this is time and money.

In comparison to other playfields, I've had Bally/Williams games with very similar wafer thin clear (but this is after 20yrs use) and others which is sufficient.  I guess back then came down to the manufacturer of the playfield.

I don't know whether Stern has there playfields clearcoated by hand or robot.

The clear coat shrinks slightly when curing and really should be left for 60 days or so before a ball even hits it.  Obviously this is not possible with production machines.

In my opinion, if you run your finger over the playfield, you should not be able to feel the slight impressions / raising where screened artwork is.  The clear should cover and absorb over this.  Same goes that you should not be able to feel where the insert is.

If I were purchasing a second spare and having HRP do the clear, I'd be upgrading with a ceramic 2k clear and you'd be hard pressed to get any better than that.

[Pintoxicated]

I wonder whether there is a difference between a new machine that is assembled and shipped to Australia for example and is opened up and played as soon as the new owner gets it and a machine that might sit on the shelf for a few months before being bought i.e. the clearcoat is given more time to cure whilst it is sitting on the shelf.  Would this be a possible explanation as to why some playfields dimple quite badly and others haven't?

My Metallica LE is wearing pretty good for a Stern machine and doesn't appear to have as much dimpling as other Stern machines I have had.  It wasn't opened and played for at least 6 months, probably more like 9 months I think.  The magnet in front of Sparky has significant dimples and I need to remove it every few months to file down the burred edges to stop it damaging the playfield - it is very soft metal but all in all the actual playfield isn't too bad which seems to support the theory that maybe a longer cure time is needed.

[Retropin]

CC is there for 2 reasons... protect the artwork from friction off the ball and to present a hard barrier between ball and timber. Playfields were ALWAYS made from Grade A ply - a maple top with a hard wood sandwich with all voids ( air spaces) compressed out.. theres a good reason for this.. it greatly reduces ball damage.
Reduce the quality of the ply to a softer mix and a hard steel ball will dent it. You could chuck a ton of CC on top to make a rock hard barrier but if the timber is soft, then its prone to expansion also and would lead to the CC cracking or lifting over time... a balance would be to make the CC not as thick as it needs to be but expect some dimpling.
Its well known that Stern PFs are prone to dimpling.. no argument there and basic sense will tell you that if the timber is HARD then damage is less prone.
All down to the quality of the ply..

[Freiherr]

Play the games more and the dimples will magically disappear.
I had 3 NIB Sterns and noticed dimpling before any play and always thought it was the way the clear coat dried and created orange peel look. AC/DC even had some over the perspex covering the lower playfield. Which is harder, perspex or plywood?
The dimples on my AC/DC are harder to notice now due to the number of games played. I have to really look hard with a fluro light to spot any.When it was new, they were much easier to spot.
The dimples on my Star Trek are more pronounced as the game is newer and the playfield lighting is brighter than most other pins.

[GORGAR 1]

Play the games more and the dimples will magically disappear.
I had 3 NIB Sterns and noticed dimpling before any play and always thought it was the way the clear coat dried and created orange peel look. AC/DC even had some over the perspex covering the lower playfield. Which is harder, perspex or plywood?
The dimples on my AC/DC are harder to notice now due to the number of games played. I have to really look hard with a fluro light to spot any.When it was new, they were much easier to spot.
The dimples on my Star Trek are more pronounced as the game is newer and the playfield lighting is brighter than most other pins.

Well said and spot on :)

[andypinboy]

Well, all I can say is I have no idea who to believe on this issue. Very divided opinion. My mate's AC/DC is heavily dimpled at 200-odd plays - but are you saying this will disappear the more it is used? That doesn't make a lot of sense, but I'm not saying you are wrong. I am however in the camp that thinks a $8k plus bnib pin should come with a super-hard, super-glossy clearcoat. At the end of the day it's close to, if not the most important & most looked at piece of a pin.

[swinks]

Well, all I can say is I have no idea who to believe on this issue. Very divided opinion. My mate's AC/DC is heavily dimpled at 200-odd plays - but are you saying this will disappear the more it is used? That doesn't make a lot of sense, but I'm not saying you are wrong. I am however in the camp that thinks a $8k plus bnib pin should come with a super-hard, super-glossy clearcoat. At the end of the day it's close to, if not the most important & most looked at piece of a pin.

I think it is tongue in cheek about the dimples disappearing, basically the more the whole playfield is dimpled it starts to look flat again 

I think the hardness of the clear is a good point and read 60 days is a good time period up to 90 days. So imagine the playfields are just made and if Stern are doing the just in time manufacturing the playfields arrive maybe 1 week fresh. They are immediately assembled, packed and sent out - another 1 week. Then over to say Aus via ship and to distributors - about 2-3 weeks. So total of 5 weeks, so short of 3-4 weeks of full curing time if all the dates were tight for a 60 day wait period. Do they still stamp the playfield with the date of manufacturer (screening) as then you will have a good indication of potential softness.

And I still believe the quality of the ply is the other huge potential component but with a thick cured CC on it would have a better chance of dimple resistance.

[Freiherr]

Definitely nothing to worry about. At first I was worried but after several thousand games, my AC/DC is running like magic with no signs of playfield wear. Where there were dimples at first when new, I have to look bloody hard to spot any.
Now to run in my Star Trek which needa a lot of catching up.

[GORGAR 1]

"now to run in my ST " lol funny stuff :)

What I'll Do is leave my KISS in its box for 6 weeks after receiving it to minimise dimples? f**k NO IM PLAYING IT lol all good each to there own it's actually been a good conversation/thread

[pinball god]

Little unsure about some theories. If the cc is under done and needs more cure time and say they are assembled within a week, would not the posts and other assemblies bed into it as well. Has anyone noticed this? Also when wood screwing into a fresh pf can also cause th cc to lift and blister. Anyone see this on their games?