Stern Thincoat - Dimples & Craters

[Caveoftreasures]

The answer is yes Nino.

What I was meaning , is the Metallica a sited game that's had the original balls from day one etc (as apprised to chucking the originals after a short time and replacing the ball sets often.

You can have the best clear job in the world but not changing balls for say 4000 games is going to add to playfields wear. Also, on the Metallica game, that magnet looks to have overheated off and on over many months which has also farked up the playfields.

I think it's good all pinball makers are now getting this feedback because we all want the best product for our money.
If any of the pin u builders increase quality assurance it's a win win for all. No argument here.

When's your Kiss arriving Nino.
Are u doing a in boxing video please !

[Caveoftreasures]

Also I had an idea from left field, a year or two ago only, all playfields on most games were can descent bulbs which all all know get n stay hot compared to a game full of no heat LEDs.

Could the games full of Std bulbs be getting a overall playfields heating and extra curing effect from the heated std globes ?
Is this a reason why dimpling seems to be mostly limited to the newest games that are now ALL LEDs ?

Goodbye heat, goodbye extra heat n curing help to the clearcoat on non can descent bulb games ?

Any thoughts ?

[swinks]

We all know that Stern gives average balls with the game but you wouldn't think it would do this sort of damage in only a few thousand games. When I had my IM it clocked up around the 5000 games and was very nice though cleaned and a quick polish every 6 months and it had 2 magnets. I would have to agree with Nino that the clear coat is so thin more recently and not holding up but still think they are also using softer timber and / or have routed the playfield on the wrong side being the softer side up and then progressed to be printed on the wrong side.

It does make you wonder those early shots of the first 20 kiss pro's looked to have a nice clear coat and went out for testing but then production started and quality dropped back to average / sub standard if dimples and issues are being noticed.

Curious Pinball God, what was the details about the JJP early printing process issues, curious as that is when Spookie's Charlie was doing them at his old work wasn't it??? Was the timber not prepared properly for the printing process ???? as it appears that big chucks of paint are coming off with the wood being clean underneath.

[pinball god]

Sorry Swinks, but you may be referring to something Brunswick Brawler was on about.

[Brunswick Brawler]

Sorry Swinks, but you may be referring to something Brunswick Brawler was on about.

Pinball God,
Yes I think Swinks intended question for me...

Swinks,
Listen to the One and Done Pinball Podcast episode 41, starting at about 1hr 20m into the podcast.  They do describe chucks of paint coming off near the bumpers, just as the photo shows (note it is near a bumper).

I think the podcast did say that the 'known early issue' was due to the direct printing, but I can't recall.

I do remember that the direct printing of the cabinets was done by the company Charlie Emery [spooky pinball] was working for at the time.  I don't know if that included printing of the play fields.


I forgot to add that JJP also offered a decal and mylar to be placed over the damaged area!

[swinks]

sorry PG you are correct, Q was meant for BB...

cheers for the answer BB, and seem to remember that they were doing playfields though I could be wrong. I suppose we will start to see any issues from the direct printing process now after a few years of being introduced with heavy play.

[Brunswick Brawler]

The problem apparently came out early on.  The podcaster suggested that a pinball show sale that JJP had some time ago for where the WOZ playfields were being sold for $100 (i think), was likely JJP's way of to get rid of affected stock.  The affected playfields would be fine if hung up as a display piece.

Sounds like JJP know exactly what series of WOZs are affected.  The podcaster has WOZ LE #11.  listen to the podcast - they did say something about the playfields being 'printed' - I'm just not sure if they still are being done that way, with that process being fixed.

[Retropin]

Chunks of paint coming off in high wear areas ( around bumpers etc) is not a fault of the direct printing... that wouldn't be an issue. Its a fault of the prep on the timber. Any painting to any substrate requires appropriate preparation... the lower or "primed" area is there to create a "bite" into the timber. Effectively its grips to the surface and INTO the fibres of the wood itself. On top of this, you can do whatever you want. But if this is not done correctly, then no matter what picture is present or how its processed, the ink/paint will just not stay on the timber when under any stress.
Basics of painting ANYTHING!

Onto Stern and their faulty clear coat issues and its pretty much the same story. In all honesty, anyone can learn to CC... THOUSANDS of people do this task every day... its not rocket science but there are rules of application that have to be adhered to... wander from these and you may well be in strife.

Both JJP and Stern have just failed to stick to the basic rules of application.. chances are its in a quest for profits and an attempt to see just how far you can scale back a process.

Its all so bloody flakey... if you cant be arsed to do something properly, then don't bloody do it.
The attitude of there being only 1 real manufacturer and we are grateful for anything that is thrown our way just feeds the lack of care taken to produce a solid product.

[Caveoftreasures]

Toyota is a very experienced company worth billions and they have the best staff n engineers n processes in the world BUT they have recalls because Humans make mistakes and it's only after the mistakes are fed back to the company by the public things get fixed etc etc. Always been the way.

It's the same with our beloved pinball industry. They learn by mistakes.
Once upon a time, in any industry, things were beautifully handcrafted and nothing was mass produced.
Alas, times have changed for both the good n bad.

I have a friend who lives in the USA and he went last week to the Stern factory and apparently all playfields are being closely checked n quality issues have already been addressed. He says he was told that no one who has received a brand new Kiss has had an issue with dimpling or clearcoat issues.
I haven't seen any photos of a Kiss with a clearcoat issue posted anywhere at all so far.

Has anyone on here got any photos or proof of a Kiss machine with dimples or clearcoat issues of a USA or Aussie delivered public game that wasn't a test mule or early prototype ?

[swinks]

2nd page of this thread showed dimples in the glare spot and these were the extra glossy / shiny ones. yes early ones but sure we will see some soon.

[pinsanity]

Both JJP and Stern have just failed to stick to the basic rules of application.. chances are its in a quest for profits and an attempt to see just how far you can scale back a process.

....before the end consumer makes enough noise and Stern inevitably go into damage control with some vague Facebook posts purporting to address the problem.  

2nd page of this thread showed dimples in the glare spot and these were the extra glossy / shiny ones. yes early ones but sure we will see some soon.

Good informative pic swinks based on direct evidence.  

[Caveoftreasures]

I was really looking for anything Since the start of the thread, meaning anything over n above that one machine.

Has anyone looked at the new Kiss machine at Pizza n Pinball that was delivered on Facebook post the other day here in Australia. Anyone taken photos of that one yet ?

[pinball god]

Car analogy is ok but haven't pf's been produced for eons now. Especially stern now being in the biz for so long. I think a car co would be broke if the brakes fail on 4-5 models and nothing done. Lucky pinball doesn't kill you that easily

[Strangeways]

Every pinball machine that has ever had a flyball will have dimples. KISS will have dimples. The real question is - How can we minimize this effect ?

Improving the clearcoat product and process.

[Caveoftreasures]

I have a left field answer for the fly ball and dimpling situation.

Why do pinballs have to stay silver and steel which is damaging to wood.

A modern way to fix the issue could be to go with the rubber coated glow balls that were on the 1999 version of Segas
Viper Night Driving machine.

No dimples on my Viper machine and it plays better with the glow balls (rubber coated) which weigh less than a Std steel pinball. Maybe pinball manufacturers could do both to minimise dimples cause steel n wood don't really mix ? .... Food for thought ?