Stern Thincoat - Dimples & Craters

[swinks]

that's a shame Nino but not surprising.

I saw pictures when the last Chicago Expo was on of Cicago gaming doing the playfields and they are doing the MMR playfields as well.

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=14221.0

[Strangeways]

that's a shame Nino but not surprising.

I saw pictures when the last Chicago Expo was on of Cicago gaming doing the playfields and they are doing the MMR playfields as well.

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=14221.0

Since this story unfolded, I've checked over 20 Sterns and the problem is definitely a combination of poor product and / or poor application. Facts are that every single Stern playfield (in fact all DMD manufacturers) have some degree of dimpling. Stern themselves have no real issue with this, and confirm that dimpling will always happen on a played machine.

My KISS LE - has maybe a dozen dimples - but is still like a sheet of glass.
KISS PRO that was used in a comp - same
TWD PRO that was picked up yesterday - same

We are going to approach Stern one last time to see if they are still interested. At least we tried !

[Caveoftreasures]

Did u get your TWD LE playfield replacement Nino ?

[Strangeways]

Did u get your TWD LE playfield replacement Nino ?

Stern and AMD agreed that the playfield in TWD LE is defective and was replaced under warranty. I have to replace it at my cost.

The replacement playfield was worse than the one currently in the game. Placed next to a CPR and Mirco playfield, it looked like the clear was applied just as the gun was running out of clear, or the clear was not mixed correctly. It will be sent to HRP to be cleared professionally. The "good" thing about this is that we are 100% confident either the clearcoat process itself is flawed, or there is no QA at all on ALL playfields that leave Churchill's ( or whatever amateur contractor is attempting to clearcoat playfields).

We are grateful that we received a replacement playfield. Stern and AMD were very professional with the replacement process. The replacement playfied was always going to HRP regardless of the condition of the factory clear.

Greg bought second playfields for ALL his games - Stern, Bally Williams etc..

[Caveoftreasures]

Glad to hear you have it sorted.

Do u have to return the original playfield or can u sell it ?
I wanted to buy a spare playfield for TWDead to make a really cool coffee table.
But I am betting they want the original back.

[Strangeways]

Glad to hear you have it sorted.

Do u have to return the original playfield or can u sell it ?
I wanted to buy a spare playfield for TWDead to make a really cool coffee table.
But I am betting they want the original back.

AMD / Stern customer service was brilliant.

I was not asked to return the playfield, and considering a swap of any playfield would have a cost of close to $1,000, I'd be surprised if they wanted the old one back. It will be repaired and re cleared.

It IS sorted as far as I'm concerned - but it cost Stern the sale of 5 KISS Premiums. An isolated case for sure, but customer confidence (first time buyers) were unimpressed with the quality of the clearcoat on NIB games.

Having said that, my KISS LE is holding up well after 300 games. Played it for 2 hours last night.

[KBRI1700]

Considering a NIB Stern is a considerable purchase it is disappoint that product quality control is seriously lacking.

Does Stern have complete disdain for its customer base?

[Caveoftreasures]

I am not sure why people who were interested in KISS games didn't go ahead with a purchase when a one off case with a Walking Dead title really had little to do with KISS playfields.....

If anything, this thread proves Stern stands behind its product & warranty. That should entice customer confidence, not the opposite.

People getting scared off buying brand new in box Sterns seems to be a massive over reaction to a one percent or less problem if it's even that. I have more than 6 Sterns and still not a single issue.

I note, I haven't seen any other negative feedback from anyone else who has purchased any of the other recent titles.
Still seems to be very few & far between.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

@CoT
Maybe they are not pinheads
Maybe they don't want to maybe do a playfield swap
Maybe the think that after spending over $10,000, something should last a few years before looking worn out

Customers, who know what crazy things gothrough their minds

[Strangeways]

They didn't go ahead with the Premium purchases because they didn't want to risk a $10K pinball machine looking like TWD LE playfield. It is not an isolated case. Proof in my experience is the replacement playfield - that is even worse than the playfield in the game. These are the facts. Stern's solution to the problem was for ME to replace their defective playfield with an even worse playfield ? Instead of Stern selling 4-5 KISS Premiums, APR have been asked to restore their Bally KISS games (3 games). Not the outcome we were hoping for.

It is like handing over a paint tin to a Ferrari owner and asking him to repaint his NEW car because the paint is flaking ?

Not a massive reaction at all. A educated decision based on the facts before them. In the past 6 months we have had several collectors ask to trade in their late model Sterns for fully restored machines. It is an alarming trend.

Personally "I" did everything I could to promote sales of KISS games to friends and KISS fans. We pinball people are the ones in the bubble, accepting QA issues. When someone "outside" views what we assume is "normal", we are the ones that need the reality check. That's why APR and HRP approached Stern with a solution (at our cost). The reply was ;

 

But other manufacturers are listening intently.

My KISS LE is STILL perfect from a playfield point of view - it is still a sheet of glass with 6-10 dimples after 500 games. The lack of code for this game is very annoying. But I digress..

[Boots]

Maybe the think that after spending over $10,000, something should last a few years before looking worn out

I think consumer laws cover that don't they?
If you pay for an item that costs that much the impression is it is going to well and truly outlast the warranty.
If you had a machine with low plays and the playfield was stuffed, you should have recourse for a full replacement, not a do it yourself replacement.

[pinnies4me]

Maybe the think that after spending over $10,000, something should last a few years before looking worn out

I think consumer laws cover that don't they?
If you pay for an item that costs that much the impression is it is going to well and truly outlast the warranty.
If you had a machine with low plays and the playfield was stuffed, you should have recourse for a full replacement, not a do it yourself replacement.

Sounds about right -

Section 54(2) of the Australian Consumer Law:

Goods are of acceptable quality if they are as:
(a) fit for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly supplied; and
(b) acceptable in appearance and finish; and
(c) free from defects; and
(d) safe; and
(e) durable;

as a reasonable consumer fully acquainted with the state and condition of the goods (including any hidden defects of the goods), would regard as acceptable having regard to the matters in subsection (3).

(3)  The matters for the purposes of subsection (2) are:
(a)  the nature of the goods; and
(b)  the price of the goods (if relevant); and
(c)  any statements made about the goods on any packaging or label on the goods; and
(d)  any representation made about the goods by the supplier or manufacturer of the goods; and
(e)  any other relevant circumstances relating to the supply of the goods.


Goods have to be “durable” particularly in light of the price. A consumer would reasonably expect a $10K game to be reasonably durable. This would have to be balanced against "(a)  the nature of the goods" as it is a ball rolling on a wooden playfield, but given other manufacturers now and historically have done better....

[pinsanity]

I think consumer laws cover that don't they?
If you pay for an item that costs that much the impression is it is going to well and truly outlast the warranty.
If you had a machine with low plays and the playfield was stuffed, you should have recourse for a full replacement, not a do it yourself replacement.

Correct. Now compare that to Stern's factory warranty which specifically excludes every other part besides the pcb and displays.

STERN PINBALL INC. SELLER WARRANTS ONLY TO THE INITIAL PURCHASER OF ITS
PRODUCTS THAT THE ITEMS LISTED BELOW ARE FREE FROM DEFECTS IN MATERIAL
AND WORKMANSHIP UNDER NORMAL USE AND SERVICE FOR THE WARRANTY PERIOD
SPECIFIED; WARRANTY PERIODS ARE EFFECTIVE FROM THE INITIAL DATE OF SHIPMENT
FROM SELLER TO DISTRIBUTOR.

1. PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARDS AND GAME LOGIC : TWO (2) MONTHS (60 DAYS)

2. DOT MATRIX DISPLAY BOARDS: NINE (9) MONTHS

NO OTHER PARTS OF SELLER'S PRODUCT ARE WARRANTED. SELLER'S SOLE LIABILITY
SHALL BE AT ITS OPTION TO REPAIR OR REPLACE PRODUCTS WHICH ARE RETURNED
TO SELLER DURING THE WARRANTY PERIODS SPECIFIED PROVIDED.

It is like handing over a paint tin to a Ferrari owner and asking him to repaint his NEW car because the paint is flaking ?

Stern's factory warranty is 60 days from the date it leaves the factory for PCBs and game logic only, plus 9 months for the display , Ferrari's is 7 years which covers the entire vehicle with the customer option to extend that to 12 years from the date of first registration.

Yep, Stern stands by their product alright.

We pinball people are the ones in the bubble, accepting QA issues. When someone "outside" views what we assume is "normal", we are the ones that need the reality check.

Amen. Too many individuals involved in the pinball hobby in Australia go through life with this solipsistic mentality that because it hasn't happened to them personally then by extension of erroneous logic it must be incorrect. Perhaps if less time was spent online with only themselves for social interaction it would see a vast improvement in their attitude towards how they consider the opinions and experiences of others, but would also no doubt see an improvement to their own life circumstances.

That's why APR and HRP approached Stern with a solution (at our cost). The reply was ;

 

The only way to effect change is for the customer base to vote with their wallets, but whilst people are seemingly happy to pay a $4k plus jump (I remember not so long ago when it was a $2k price differential between Pro/LE) for a numbered plaque plus one extra mechanised toy with some extra flashing lights why would they change their internal manufacturing processes?

Little wonder though that consumers are turning to 20 year old restored machines.

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Pinsanity, you will find that Australian consumer law overrides what is written in the back of a stern manual

All it will take is one disgruntled NIB buyer

[pinsanity]

Pinsanity, you will find that Australian consumer law overrides what is written in the back of a stern manual

All it will take is one disgruntled NIB buyer

I am aware of the relevant sections of the current domestic ACL legislation and its precedence over the warranty of a foreign manufacturer, however I was juxtaposing the two in order to reinforce a point regarding Stern's sincerity as to "standing by its products/warranty".