Ghost Busters - 2016 - would you get it

[delarge]

Stern have never really been "that big" to be worried about. The bubble is about to burst. I speak to operators and respected dealers almost daily and the price hikes and the 3 model system is not going to be a good business model in Australia moving forward.

I think Ghostbusters looks AWESOME, but there would be no way I'd buy a machine at that price, that is effectively an incomplete machine. But I love the artwork, and it is designed by the the best designer at Stern.

As a hobbyist, I didn't mind the 2012 Pro pricing of $5950....a stripped down Game of Thrones at $8150 no longer seems good value anymore. That's tough to swallow.

I'm looking forward to Ghostbusters, but am anticipating disappointment that something cool will be ripped out of the Pro version.

It is very disappointing that Stern always talk about the operator, but I don't see the humble op being helped out any with this type of pricing.

What will happen when the bubble bursts?

[Strangeways]

Stern have never really been "that big" to be worried about. The bubble is about to burst. I speak to operators and respected dealers almost daily and the price hikes and the 3 model system is not going to be a good business model in Australia moving forward.

I think Ghostbusters looks AWESOME, but there would be no way I'd buy a machine at that price, that is effectively an incomplete machine. But I love the artwork, and it is designed by the the best designer at Stern.

As a hobbyist, I didn't mind the 2012 Pro pricing of $5950....a stripped down Game of Thrones at $8150 no longer seems good value anymore. That's tough to swallow.

I'm looking forward to Ghostbusters, but am anticipating disappointment that something cool will be ripped out of the Pro version.

It is very disappointing that Stern always talk about the operator, but I don't see the humble op being helped out any with this type of pricing.

What will happen when the bubble bursts?

As a collector, I would buy TWD Pro, Ironman VE and I'd look at a Tron at the price point of $6000. I know a lot of collectors that would do the same. Several KISS fans would have bought the Pro at that price.

Ghostbusters Pro with the current artwork - I'd definitely buy - code issues included.

[Caveoftreasures]

Yes guys, fair points but an Australian dollar at $1.13 ish for ACDC at 6 grand ex delivery & ex shaker & ex fitted came to 7 K.

We now have Pro pricing averaging between $7850 and add the extra $600 for shaker fitted & delivered etc.

Also keep in mind, AMD rewards repeat customers who pay upfront by bank transfer & often delivery & shaker et can be easily negotiated.

You can't blame AND for the shit Aussie Dollar. Things have changed since 2012 and AMD did also order over 6 containers of ACDC because it was the biggest title seen in this country for decades.
It's difficult to compare apples for oranges.

I have said it a million times & try very hard to get people to understand the Pro is the best bang for your buck if you want a fast game with harsher rule sets with only ten percent less bells n whistles than the LE models.

Also, every industry utilises the 3 tier model selection/model levels cause people want choice & different price points to invest in.
The days of one shoe fits all are over.
Embrace the 3 tier system because the fact that all 3 models sell very well for Syern proves the public like this marketing plan. Choice is good. No one wants to own a carbon copy of the blokes pin u down the road.

Back to Ghost Busters.
Stern are the biggest thing in pinball today & have been for a very long time.
Without Stern our beloved hobby & industry would have died, never to be reborn again.
Gary Stern is a passionate fighter. As a self employed entrepreneur all my life, I can't not have total respect for the guy.
He ain't perfect, but he just keeps doing everything he can to keep both the original DNA in pinball whilst moving towards the new technology that we now have.
Great exciting times ahead.

Ohh, and it's Steve Ritchies birthday today. Get on Facebook and wish Steve a great day.
A class act and someone I have a lot of respect for.
Happy days ahead guys.
Hope pinball in 2016 brings everyone something magical whatever that may be !

[pinsanity]

It is very disappointing that Stern always talk about the operator, but I don't see the humble op being helped out any with this type of pricing.

What will happen when the bubble bursts?

Hagerty Peterson will implement a fire sale once the well runs dry.

The cash cow is currently grazing in the home market, however this is a short term financial gain for Stern, which will come at the expense of long term growth for pinball itself.

[Caveoftreasures]

Would you like take a Wager of $1,000 on that not coming true.

Barcodes & Pinball related businesses are booming in every country that pinballs have a long history in & not a day goes past there isn't a social media site listing new pins in new locations.

Stern is riding a wave of high demand & are running flat chat & also have many third parties lining up for remakes that are growing in size and number.

If Stern manages its scale of economies well, I can't see anything dramatic happening in the next ten years.
Remember also, Gary has always said the most important part to running a pinball factory is balancing stock purchases/timing & buy rates of piece rates. He seems to master this well after 50 years.

I am betting the silver fox is two steps ahead & will leave Stern in great hands no matter when he hands the reigns over. Never underestimate the passionate Stern fans to provide support right when Stern needs it most.
I could be wrong but the yanks love Stern more than us.

[Bayview]

The Aussie Dollar is only going to go down from here.
So to buy new Sterns, is only going to get dearer....that's without Stern price hikes.

[Strangeways]

Yes guys, fair points but an Australian dollar at $1.13 ish for ACDC at 6 grand ex delivery & ex shaker & ex fitted came to 7 K.

We now have Pro pricing averaging between $7850 and add the extra $600 for shaker fitted & delivered etc.

Also keep in mind, AMD rewards repeat customers who pay upfront by bank transfer & often delivery & shaker et can be easily negotiated.

You can't blame AND for the shit Aussie Dollar. Things have changed since 2012 and AMD did also order over 6 containers of ACDC because it was the biggest title seen in this country for decades.
It's difficult to compare apples for oranges.

I have said it a million times & try very hard to get people to understand the Pro is the best bang for your buck if you want a fast game with harsher rule sets with only ten percent less bells n whistles than the LE models.

Also, every industry utilises the 3 tier model selection/model levels cause people want choice & different price points to invest in.
The days of one shoe fits all are over.
Embrace the 3 tier system because the fact that all 3 models sell very well for Syern proves the public like this marketing plan. Choice is good. No one wants to own a carbon copy of the blokes pin u down the road.

Back to Ghost Busters.
Stern are the biggest thing in pinball today & have been for a very long time.
Without Stern our beloved hobby & industry would have died, never to be reborn again.
Gary Stern is a passionate fighter. As a self employed entrepreneur all my life, I can't not have total respect for the guy.
He ain't perfect, but he just keeps doing everything he can to keep both the original DNA in pinball whilst moving towards the new technology that we now have.
Great exciting times ahead.

Ohh, and it's Steve Ritchies birthday today. Get on Facebook and wish Steve a great day.
A class act and someone I have a lot of respect for.
Happy days ahead guys.
Hope pinball in 2016 brings everyone something magical whatever that may be !

Completely untrue. Pinball has been around a lot longer than Stern. The NIB Home market is a relatively new concept for Stern and the hobbyist / collector. Would possibly go back 5 years at the most. NIB Sterns only represent a small percentage of pinball buyers, even in Australia. There are far more containers of second hand pinballs arriving in Australia than new Sterns. That is a fact.

Stern are in business more for operators. The last 5 years may have seen a huge increase into the home market, but there are far more reconditioned pinballs than new Sterns going into homes. The demand for restored games has never been higher, in this country, for second hand games. If Stern were not bailed out (twice), it would not have made a big difference to where we are now.

I know you love Stern, but they have never saved the industry, and never will. The biggest NIB commercial manufacturer - a resounding YES - but that's because there's no one else left. I am grateful Stern are still around, but if they closed their doors 5, 10, 15 years ago, it would not have made a huge difference. But I want Stern to be around for many more years to come.

[Caveoftreasures]

The context was without Stern, the BNIB market/industry would have died.

Wasn't talking about old 1990,s DMD machines.

Also, a lot of people who are new to pinnies wont buy 25 year old machines with massive question marks & reconditioning bills that can be sky high.

Brand new stuff has got the barcades etc  flourishing again cause the titles are fresh & new.

A successful pin business will promote both new and vintage side by side to cover all the bases and everyone wins.
They are apples & oranges.

As long as our industry grows, it's all good.
The home market has been thriving since the surplus sited pins fell out of favour back pre 2000.
The home market has been going great guns for 15 plus years.

Maybe ten years for Stern but both operators and Home users are both revved up currently.
JJP has been instrumental in helping this along no doubt.

[Strangeways]

The context was without Stern, the BNIB market/industry would have died.

Wasn't talking about old 1990,s DMD machines.

Also, a lot of people who are new to pinnies wont buy 25 year old machines with massive question marks & reconditioning bills that can be sky high.

Brand new stuff has got the barcades etc  flourishing again cause the titles are fresh & new.

A successful pin business will promote both new and vintage side by side to cover all the bases and everyone wins.
They are apples & oranges.

As long as our industry grows, it's all good.
The home market has been thriving since the surplus sited pins fell out of favour back pre 2000.
The home market has been going great guns for 15 plus years.

Maybe ten years for Stern but both operators and Home users are both revved up currently.
JJP has been instrumental in helping this along no doubt.

In that context, your statement is true. Generally speaking, Stern are the leading commercial manufacturer, but have no bearing on the hobby's or industry's survival today. In years to come, if they are around after our generation move on, then yes - they would have a significant bearing.

Newbies start off in the second hand market and progress to the Addams Family titles. The only "NEW to the hobby" collectors I've ever seen by NIB Sterns are AC/DC fans, Metallica Fans and KISS fans. Most collections have predominantly older games and might have a late model Stern. The home market only started around 2008 at the very earliest. The demand for restored pinballs has never been higher. The demand for NIB Sterns has grown, but the biggest question is "for how long". If Stern keep bringing out licenses that are broad (Wrestlemania), Movie pins (Avengers / Ghostbusters) and Music Pins (KISS, Iron Maiden) then they will continue to grow as long as they become more proficient at code maturity at the shipping stage. We see that KISS and GoT have FAR superior clearcoats to TWD - massive difference, so they ARE listening.

My thoughts on Stern pinball is that irrespective of the title, they need to reduce the supplier prices and that way, sell more games.

I think during my review of TWD LE, I stated I would not hesitate to part with $7500 for the LE. I did buy a KISS LE ($11,500). Both these titles are excellent. I played a Tron at Cursed's meet and I was pleasantly surprised. As a Pro, it looked like an LE and played exceptionally well with brilliant code. If that title was $5600 for the PRO - I would consider buying it.

Ghostbusters WILL BE an awesome game. Artwork is hand draw and appears to lend into the original movies. Designed by Trudeau - my favorite modern day designer - all the boxes are ticked - except the factory price is way too high. I can live with basic code for 3 months - but the price is the issue. It is the major issue with most pinheads and adding shaker motors and free delivery are not the answer any longer.

[swinks]

even the guys in the US are not happy with the rising prices of the pro and Canadians are slowing to buy NIB and they are just over the border, things will slow soon and I bet when they do they will drop the price as they can afford to because they have taking advantage of the sales.

As for the 3 tier pinballs up to 4-5 years ago they just had one type and then introduced just differences in looks but the last few years were minor changes in play but GoT was a massive difference and if it wasn't for a half decent rule set with some new originality the pro would of really boomed. But people are being more weary and Stern are pushing it to the end. But companies like Spooky, Heighway, JJP, Dutch Pinball have a single game play game with just visual differences for their LE and only Stern do the 3 tier different gameplay thing and many people are not a fan - plus on a business standpoint is a bit poor in management as they have to stock doubles of playfields instead of just one playfield and then have to have 2 different pieces of code and there is a massive development cost there - so it be smarter to have one game with same a different set of plastics, backglass and cab art for le and one playfield and one set of programming.

You wait for the topper for GB (haven't seen it) but bet it will probably be around $1k landed to us as they are getting crazy in price and for the people who are cashed up. Stern are trying to push certain modders out of the market and grabbing everything they can . greed. Yes Gary has done some good but with Jody getting his claws more and more into the business marketing and steering the business he will ruin it.

[swinks]

also Cavey all AMD's pro's are now $8150 so they have been increasing across all the available games even though the dollar has not changed in the last 3 months and in the US the other pro's are cheaper than the latest release so they are ensuring they are covering a near rough time in sales if Stern jack up prices or the dollar goes south.

[Caveoftreasures]

No doubt the dollar has caused massive hassles but everything has gone up.

A new JetSki last year I wanted was $16,990 on special. Exact same model 12 months later is $18,990 because of the dollar. Same with cars, pro rata same sort of increases across the board.

The prices u quote for brand new Sterns Nino are way under realistic prices for a fully imported USA product with GST & import duties & various fees added for shipping & customs etc.
You cannot seriously expect people to sell a 2015/2016 model product for the same money that you are selling refurbished 25 year old DMD games that are B & C titles that are not absolutely mint or barely used.

There has always been a conflict of interests between any pinball company I have known of who makes it living from doing up old pinball machines.
The prices are way high for refurbished stock from the 90,s and the prices for Sterns are set far too low but never on offer.

I have not see one single pinball business do this properly except AMD who sell BNIB Sterns, refurb Sterns, and pin us from every other era. Their pricing a were never contradictory.

Joe from interstate has also juggled it well but no other business yet has set realistic prices in my opinion because they are firmly in one camp or the other but never both and hence that's where the pricing conflict starts and rarely ever gets addressed in a balanced why buy pin businesses who don't evenly embrace and market both the Stern products or the older stuff happily side by side.
I have seen it dozens of times and it just never works out to balanced pricing that is even close to reality.
(Lots spell mistakes cause I.phone & bit rushed).

Welcome to the luxury market where nothing is ever a bargain.
Earn more or buy less. That's the only choice unfortunately.

[KBRI1700]

For me pinball has an emotive side to it, I associate with Bally/Williams machines.

When I buy a B/W machine I know it will play now as it did then with no time lag due to code updates.

Stern will never have the emotive association for me; I would then categorise it as a purchase.

I would not buy a Stern machine at this juncture due to its business model (3 tier purchasing, code updates).

On a side note the first machine I remember playing was in the Downer fish and chip shop (1973); It was a Royal Guard by Gottlieb.

[pinball god]

In all honesty if Stern think they can price gouge indefinitely, then they'll get a rude surprise when production lines grind to a halt one by one. I've seen with companies like Bluescope etc shafting oz businesses with steel prices and then when the Chinese slowed, the reps were surprised when greeted with the ol' f@$k off, here's the door people like myself gave them. A lot of dollars went off shore with cheap shit steel purchases by my company.

Think you're smarter than your customers......um not a good idea.

When the bubble bursts, and it will, there will be a lot of sucking up to be made. If that's too late to make a difference, then its bye bye. Quite frankly it doesn't worry me if Stern go, as it won't make any difference to the hobby and if it did its only pinball.....makes no diff in my life, I'll find something else.

[pinsanity]

^^Yep. Ignore your traditional core market for long enough and they'll move their dollars elsewhere permanently.

Home market is only going to go so far and last so long before saturation point.

Stern have always been a reactive, rather than a proactive company anyway.

I personally would have preferred to see them fold back in '99 with the rest of them. Then pinball could have had ten to fifteen years of breathing space to reinvent itself. As it stands they represent the entrenched boat anchor justification for many that prevents pinball from moving forward to appeal to the next generation.