Two Lamps On Instead Of One - RE; CFTBL

[VanillaSlicePie]

Not 100% sure what should be connected when changing Indy cpu over to cftb.
Just being cautious....

[DSB]

Ok, This is what "I" would do. Please note this is just what I would do in your situation. Others may do things differently.

First I would pull every plug from the bottom of the driver board except for J133 and 137 (lamp matrix)
From the driver board pull plugs J106 and 107 (solenoid and flasher power) Can't be too careful!
I would pull the power plug J502 off the sound board (who knows what sounds you would get with the CFBL sound chips and an Indy CPU in there)

At this point I would do a single lamp test through all the lamps with the existing CPU in to make sure it works and the faults are still there. If the faults disappear at this stage it may not be a CPU problem so maybe no need to go any further.

Take the Indy CPU complete and install it in the CFBL.
Connect all the ribbon cables on the CPU
Connect the power plug J210
Connect plug J205 direct switches (to get the menu buttons working)
Leave all other switch input plugs off.

Start her up. You will most likely get a lot of test report faults as nothing is connected. The lamp matrix should start working but may look unusual as it thinks its an Indy machine.

Do your lamp test and cross you fingers!! (Obviously the lamps names will be the Indy lamp names but you can use the lamp numbers to test)

[VanillaSlicePie]

Well after doing the change over like you suggested nothing has improved. Except it rules out the CPU and driver board. This has really got me stumped! I'm guessing that the issue has to be on the field. Will dive back into it again, maybe I missed something before. Man, what a mission! Thanks for your help, it's well appreciated. Still open for any more suggestions.

[DSB]

To confirm you have changed the cpu and driver board with the Indy boards. If so then I agree the fault must be in the field wiring.

At least you can put a board fault out of your mind. 

It's seems the faults are a bit Radom. To me if a diode was shorted it would be a consistent fault.

[VanillaSlicePie]

I only changed over the Indy CPU to cftbl and not the Indy driver board. Should I have changed over both boards together and test???

[DSB]

I know its a pain but maybe you should install your CFBL driver board in your Indy as a test. Pretty sure the only difference is the CFBL driver board will have the flipper relay circuitry on it.

That will 100% clear your boards.

Before you do check the voltage on the driver board at test point TP8. This feeds the lamp columns. You should get around 18 VDC to ground. Just wondering if you have a high voltage there or getting some ac from the bridge rectifier. This test point comes straight off the bridge rectifier BR1.

[VanillaSlicePie]

There's 18v at TP8. Changed cftbl driver board over to Indy (what a mission!) and it tested fine in the single lamp test.

[DSB]

There's 18v at TP8. Changed cftbl driver board over to Indy (what a mission!) and it tested fine in the single lamp test.

Yeah! I hear you but at least you can focus entirely on the field wiring.

Been thinking, Are the faulty lamps the BC type? Maybe a throw away but I have heard of the insulators breaking down on switches and causing problems so maybe it can happen with the lamp holders too. Maybe it is not showing as a true short on a multimeter.

[VanillaSlicePie]

Yep heading for the play field and I did notice there is only a thin piece of insulator on the lamp holders so was even going to order what ever I need and just replace all of them. That's if I don't find anything before hand. Happy hunting!!!!

[DSB]

Another thing to try, if the "I" still causes the 30 million to come on. De-solder the out going (the wire heading away from the driver board) row wire from the 30 million lamp. If the 30 million lamp still lights the fault will be in the wiring towards the board and visa versa. You can then work your way towards the board or the other way disconnecting the row wire if the 30 million doesn't light until it does. When you come to a lamp circuit board you should be able to unplug it as the row wire should just past through the plug.

This may help isolate the fault to a part of the loom

[VanillaSlicePie]

Will try your suggestion. Tried to attach the creature lamp page but unsuccessful. I've gone through every single lamp thoroughly writing down any lamp that comes on when it shouldn't and there's a definite pattern. Thought you might have given up on me by now so your help is much appreciated. Learning heaps. 

[DSB]

Not problem at all!!! Haven't had a problem like this in one of my machines for ages so I am enjoying the challenge and still learning myself. I actually like fixing them as much as playing em.

Since the machine has always had these issues it is possible someone has done some incorrect wiring or you are dealing with multiple problems. Both of which are the hardest to diagnose in my experience but when you find it you will wonder why you couldn't see it straight up.

For example if some has replaced a lamp holder and swapped the row and column wires the good diode will essentially act as a shorted diode but at a glance it looks good. Easy to over look small details like this when your bent over a machine with a torch.

A set fault pattern is a good thing as hopefully you can isolate parts of the matrix to narrow it down.

[VanillaSlicePie]

 lamp 001.jpg     Working on row 2. Disconnected KISS connector- 30 mill still flashing and (A) still flashing (PAID)
                                                Disconnected Playground Award row wires- (A) still flashing (PAID)
                                                Disconnected PAID connector-30 mill stops sflashing when (K) (I) (S) (S)

[DSB]

Some very helpful info!  

Here's something to try. It appears that column 1 is being permanently energised but we now know the driver board works fine so row 7 may be causing this. I would check the Bottom Jet (17) where the column and row intersect. Remove the globe, check the diode and wiring is correct at that point.

Even better if you can disconnect the 2 x row wires from the bottom jet and temp connect them together to completely remove it from the circuit.

[DSB]

Here's why I think it could be the bottom jet.

Assume you are testing the (K) in KISS (Lamp 21) top of the second column