LAH "Ripper" - kickback issues (F9 Fuse) & LHS Flipper

[Retropin]

If the diode had gone short - yes this can cause the fuse to blow.

How many fuses do you have???

Try the PF upright, header box open trick. if she blows again - you may well see where the short is by the blue spark.

good luck

[MartyJ]

I've got a couple more fuses and each time it looks like it kills the Q1 as well.  I will do a visual again (unclip the loom and see)....

I have traced the blue/black wire (which is power I think) back and I cannot see anything obvious.  The purple / yellow looks although it goes to the crane...

[MartyJ]

I've got a couple more fuses and each time it looks like it kills the Q1 as well.  I will do a visual again (unclip the loom and see)....

I have traced the blue/black wire (which is power I think) back and I cannot see anything obvious.  The violet / yellow looks although it goes to the crane...then to magnets!

OK, the blue/black wire looks to be clean. 

1st boot, the fuse blew, but thankfully not the transister this time! (note crane was unplugged and also coil..) The thing I did notice (in the dark - no sparks) however there was a humm at first power up - sounds like coming from magnets as I had my head right next to them.....It wasn't the speakers as I've heard these a million times and I am use to it starting up without the fuse working.  Definately different...

So, I removed the 3 fuses from the magnets, and unplugged both ends of the loom from the small PCB next to magnets....NO FUSE BLOW.

Is the violet / yellow a common earth for the 50v things (I'm shooting from the hip here so please correct me)....If there is a drama with the magnets can this be causing issues...



Update:...I've bathed the aux PCB 520-5068-00 (rev A.) in isoprobl alcohol to clean it as it was covered in gunk. There are a few things - a couple of tracks have been jumpered but looks intentional and the end pin (one after the gap) on J2 is gone (dry).  Could this dry joint be causing issues?  If the magnets are not related to this issue at all then I'll have to take a deep breath and bat on.

Thanks again for everyones input....

[Retropin]

I need a schematic to go any further here...


... over to anyone with the schematic!

[MartyJ]

I need a schematic to go any further here...


... over to anyone with the schematic!

I don't have one unfortunately and probably would struggle to understand it (being a bit noobish)....

Also, if someone is able to guide me as to how to measure transisters on these aux boards (ie red on metal lug or black and what values should be?).  I don't think it would be as simple as one dry solder joint!
I found an additional dry joint on the middle transister as well.  They look like they are a P20N010 (?)

But seriously, thanks to everyone for helping thus far.

[Retropin]

Ok, Ive got the schematic from Pinballfixers site - thanks mate!!

I dont have the manual so its a bit hard for me to follow whats going on here,

Let me get this straight - F1 keeps blowing, this is a 5A Slo Blo.
transistor that keeps blowing is Q1, this happens at power up, but you can hear a hum?

Now with your DMM set it to 200ohm setting ( this will probably be the least resistance value on it), check diode D21 on the PPB. It should read low resistance one way, switch the test leads over and you should get infinite ( will go off the scale) reading the other. if you get low both ways, this diode is short.
The feed in to Q1 is connector J8 pin 11, - out is J8 pin 12. make sure there is not a short across these. Also R19, put meter to a higher reading and you should get 220 Ohm ( or VERY close).
measuring resistors in circuit can be decieving though and sometimes you have to lift one leg.

Make sure TIP36C is in the right way round.

If you do all this and this checks out, then the circuit for this transistor is fine and we need to look elsewhere, but lets eradicate this first

[MartyJ]

Ok, Ive got the schematic from Pinballfixers site - thanks mate!!

I dont have the manual so its a bit hard for me to follow whats going on here,

Let me get this straight - F1 keeps blowing, this is a 5A Slo Blo.
transistor that keeps blowing is Q1, this happens at power up, but you can hear a hum?

No its the F9 which blows instantly on power up - it is a 250v 5A Slo Blo.  On a quick side note, I could not get an identical one from Middy's ie the wire in the middle looked different however it is a 250v 5A slo blo glass fuse

Now with your DMM set it to 200ohm setting ( this will probably be the least resistance value on it), check diode D21 on the PPB. It should read low resistance one way, switch the test leads over and you should get infinite ( will go off the scale) reading the other. if you get low both ways, this diode is short.

I'm not a whizz with the multimeter I set it to OHM changed the range to M.  It read 1.184 one way, then .OL the other.  Not sure if I did this right.

The feed in to Q1 is connector J8 pin 11, - out is J8 pin 12. make sure there is not a short across these.

Checked these, nothing obvious and looks OK.

Also R19, put meter to a higher reading and you should get 220 Ohm ( or VERY close).
measuring resistors in circuit can be decieving though and sometimes you have to lift one leg.

Yep, one leg sore back now...On k OHM setting read as .220 / .221

Make sure TIP36C is in the right way round.

Yes is identical to others.

If you do all this and this checks out, then the circuit for this transistor is fine and we need to look elsewhere, but lets eradicate this first

I tend to think it has something to do with the violet / yellow wire, which is used on crane (flashers I think) and the magnets.  The humm on power up I am convinced is the magnets.  Even with new TIP36C with magnets installed, fuse blew - even with coil unplugged and killed my new Q1.  No sparks under PF, no obvious signs of a short / exposed wire although could be difficult to trace...
I removed fuse from magnets, unplugged both sides of the aux board - 520-5068-00 which violet / yellow goes into...Powered up - fuse fine nil blow.
I cleaned the aux board in a tonne of alcohol and observed 3 dry joints...Two on J2 plug and one on the middle transister.  I have not put it back in again as I dont really want to blow another Q1.  I am googling to try to find the transister values for the aux board (P20N10).  The joints have been repaired.  The board has been previously repaired as there are a couple of track repairs but they look clean..
Its becoming a riddle, but I am extremely grateful for your advise and the time you guys are spending to help me.
I have certainly crossed into territory which is new, but also exciting as I never thought I would be able to repair a board (well PPB only at this stage)

[humpalot]

Lets also test diodes 6, 8 and 16 on the PPB.  You will need to desolder one side the diode to test.

[humpalot]

I'm a little fuzzy after a few beers, but did I read correct that the F9 fuse does not blow when the fuses are taken out for the magnets?

If so, suspect the transistors on the magnet PCB to be faulty.  These things cop a hammering and are common to short.

[MartyJ]

Lets also test diodes 6, 8 and 16 on the PPB.  You will need to desolder one side the diode to test.

OK, I may have to do this tomorrow morning...The boss is getting a bit grumpy now being the 13hr I been working on it today  
I found a wiring diagram for the magnet board too from AA.  

[MartyJ]

I'm a little fuzzy after a few beers, but did I read correct that the F9 fuse does not blow when the fuses are taken out for the magnets?

If so, suspect the transistors on the magnet PCB to be faulty.  These things cop a hammering and are common to short.

Correct!

The magnet PCB also had multiple dry joints...Do you know what the readings for the transisters should be & also whether black on metal lug or red!

[humpalot]

OK then we are getting somewhere.

The dry/broken joints from the constant vibration causes the transistors to short.  These ones are little dicky to read, best just to change the 3 of them.

In the mean time, you can still play the game without the magnets.  The original transistors for the magnets are 20N10L, but you can use IRL540N or 22NE10L as well.

[MartyJ]

Well, there is no power to the ripper with this board removed.  So playable I guess, but I havn't as yet (want to play in its full glory!)....

I read them with the black lead on the lug
1st one .306 / .328
2nd one .509 / .OL
3rd one .376 / .393

For the second & third ones I'm reading the outer feet on the underside of the PCB...

If these are suppose to be the same as the transisters on the PPB ie between .4 to .7 then they look a bit crook.  Specially the second one.

Do you reckon DSE will sell them as I don't think anything else is open tomorrow?
Also - if these are replaced do you think this can cause the probems I'm having......??

[Retropin]

Marty,

Component is a Mosfet. Ive never been able to make out marvins guides to testing this kind of thing, so a check on a few others that are the same and then compare will tell you what the readings should be.
I doubt DSE will sell them, they hardly sell anything thats of any use component wise, but its worth a check.

20N10L or 22NE10L or IRL540  will do the job.

[humpalot]

OK clear head this morning.  The magnet control board J2 pin1 is 50 VDC vio/yel and goes to PPB J7 pin 3.  On the ripper kickback vio/yel 50 VDC also goes to PPB J7 pin 3.  Here is the common source, the fault that you have is on the magnet control board, just order and replace the 3 transistors.  Whilst you have the board out reflow the header pins with solder, test the resistors, diodes and the 74HCT273 IC.  Thou I highly doubt anything other than transistors are gone.

You can get the transistors from here.

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=17&pg=2

Like I said before very common for these boards to be faulty, anyone with a LAH should at least pull the board out and reflow the solder on the header pins and transistors as matter of prevention.