Cab. prep. for decals problem

[Pajo]

Hi everyone,

I'm after some advice on preparing my TZ cab for new decals.  So far I'm down to an empty cab with the inside cleaned and the bottom sanded and sealed with a mat varnish. 

I've stripped the old decals off using a heat gun and paint scraper.  That all went very smoothly.  I've filled and sanded the damaged corners and edges (sides were ok) using a selly's 2 part filler. 

The problem I have now is that there is still a very thin layer residual glue on the timber.  I have been sanding with 120 grit using a palm sander and it is taking an age.  When I sand, I get very small balls of glue and timber on the suface which I have to brush off before continuing. Using this method, the sides now look and feel pretty smooth but I know that there is still some glue there. 

I have tried various chemical methods to attack the glue.. oomph, shellac and thinners.  When I use the thinners, the surface becomes very sticky so I know that there is glue there but the problem is that even when it becomes sticky, it is still almost impossible to get it off.

My plan is to use 3 coats of water based flooring varnish (Cabbots CFP Gloss) to seal the wood and fill any inperfections, I'll sand that back and then apply the decals dry if I'm feeling brave.

My question is how do any of you deal with this issue after heat stripping decals? Is it good enough to move onto painting or varnishing the cab once the wood is smooth or do I need to keep going until there is no trace of glue in the wood? ie no more balling when I sand.

If I need to remove all traces of glue, how do I do it?

Thanks

[pinnies4me]

Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the chemical side might chip in, but at worst you would try a test patch of your filler over the top of the glue residue. If all sticks and seems to seal, then it might be OK to seal over the top of the residue. But that would be a last resort as there might be long term reaction between the residue and the filler. Different glues dissolve with different solvents - eg some with metho and other with turps, and the other will not have an effect. Maybe try those two, and then acetone?

[Retropin]

The glue is a real pain and sounds like it has leeched into the timber.
My only suggestion would be to continue using whatever dissolves it with a rag or many... you'll suck a lot of it out. Then let it dry completely.. it should NOT be tacky to the touch then. Id leave it for a good week to fully degas itself.. if you dont so this, your seal will lift in parts due to the gassing underneath. Vinyl glue can normally be removed using meths... its what we use in the sign trade... or White Spirit

Then seal it with the cabbotts as you have described.

Im guessing here.... but this is what i would do in the same position

[pinnies4me]

As retro mentioned - white spirits def worth a try too, his post reminded me that I got some glue off something a couple of years ago using that after trying all the other usual solvent suspects.

[Retropin]

As retro mentioned - white spirits def worth a try too, his post reminded me that I got some glue off something a couple of years ago using that after trying all the other usual solvent suspects.

EXCELLENT for Mylar removal too!

[pinnies4me]

EXCELLENT for Mylar removal too!

I think that might have been what I used it for!!

[Pajo]

thanks for the suggestions, I tried turps with no effect, I'll get some meths and white spirit to try next. I'll get back to let you know what works.

[pinnies4me]

And keep an eye on this thread, the answer might turn up from one of our knowledgeable members

http://aussiepinball.com/index.php?topic=4107.0;topicseen

[markc]

when we used to use a heat gun to get the decals off we would then use the same heat gun to get the glue off , takes a while but more prep work means better finish

on out old web site there is a section from start to finish of a few we have done


we are doing 5 addams , 1 indy and 2 TZ at the moment .    no pink legs this time


mark

[Pajo]

Thanks for the advice Mark, I also used the heat gun to remove the glue however the problem I have is there is a very thin film of glue left.  The wood is now smooth however it won't sand properly due to the residual glue. 

As this is my first cab, I don't know if this is normal or whether I need to do more to get back to wood with no glue.  I'm going to try some metho & white spirit tomorrow.

[markc]

i am guessing you have already tried to sand it ?  or maybe try a belt sander ( we use these now)
we also apply a light coat of putty filler and then sand it back too

mark

[Caveoftreasures]

I have a contact who has been redecalling machines for many many years and he has advised me repeatedly that the more chemicals you use on the cabinet, the more problems you will have with the new decals coming off over the next 6 months. all of these chemicals previously mentioned will leach back into the wood and the more they will then leach back out over time, killing the new glues ability to hold decals on.

He suggests using a much harsher grit on the cabinet to get the glue off. he uses 180 grit to start with. (but different sand papers n brands will vary obviously).

He then sprays the complete cabinet with grey spray bog which can be purchased from places like Super Cheap Auto for little money. I can get the exact brand for you if you want. He then uses 120 grit then resprays with bog then sands with a lower grit and so on.

Getting the majority of the glue off is ideal, but not neccessary at all. Using chemicals on the cabinet is a big NO NO according to Pete who redecalls pinballs for a living. Hope it helps.
 

 

[elkor-alish]

All this info is good stuff.

Yes please tell us the brand of spray bog.
I have a re-decal job in the near future myself, so the more info the better.

[Caveoftreasures]

The product stocked by Super Cheap Auto is made by 3M and comes in a can with 400grams and upwards. Thjere are a few different size cans.

I am told the large size can is $10 to $13 depending on store specials etc. I would stick with 3M because they are known world wide.

Spray Putter/Filler is grey ofcourse inside the can. Super Cheap will do a bigger discount when purchasing 10 or more of the same product- store dependant.

Hope it helps.

[markc]

The product stocked by Super Cheap Auto is made by 3M and comes in a can with 400grams and upwards. Thjere are a few different size cans.

I am told the large size can is $10 to $13 depending on store specials etc. I would stick with 3M because they are known world wide.

Spray Putter/Filler is grey ofcourse inside the can. Super Cheap will do a bigger discount when purchasing 10 or more of the same product- store dependant.

Hope it helps.

the one we use is BLUE  from there ,  and yes buy in bulks is cheaper  , we are starting another Addams this week and will take pictures and do a section on here ??  or our new machine web site  ( is up on the net and getting pins pictures loaded this week )

mark