Author Topic: WILLIAMS SYSTEM 3 TO 7 DISPLAY ISSUES  (Read 219 times)

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Offline ddstoys

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WILLIAMS SYSTEM 3 TO 7 DISPLAY ISSUES
« on: March 31, 2010, 08:46:11 PM »
Well ive just finished repairing a master display board for Marcus Time warp.   In attract mode and display test all displays work fine but put it in Audit mode or start a game and some of the digits start fading and flickering.  I have new caps and transistors for the High voltage section on there way could the old caps be my problem here?

Offline Strangeways

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Re: WILLIAMS SYSTEM 3 TO 7 DISPLAY ISSUES
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 10:29:44 PM »

Check the +100VDC and -100VDC on the top left hand connector of the power supply. Anything seen less than +90VDC or -90VDC = the problem.

Have you done any work to the PSU ? If you replace Z2 and Z4 with 91V Zeners, you will seen issues like the one you describe with displays that are old.
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Offline ddstoys

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Re: WILLIAMS SYSTEM 3 TO 7 DISPLAY ISSUES
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 10:33:55 PM »
Thanks Nino ill check the voltages i have not replaced the diodes yet they are coming with the other parts ill double check the voltages and see whats up  ^^^

Offline ddstoys

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Re: WILLIAMS SYSTEM 3 TO 7 DISPLAY ISSUES
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2010, 04:45:21 PM »
Well ive checked the power supply which is fine.  It a master display issue for sure as i installed it into gorgar with the same problems and time warp worked fine with gorgars master display.  its one of the master displays with all the transistors instead of ICs.    Ive tested all the Transistors which all test ok replaced the 3 strobe input ICs and the Blanking IC.   COuld it be the BCD to 7 segment decoders?     I just find it funny that they all work fine in test mode !@#  I have some of these IC on there way but if the issue is else where id rather try now than wait

Offline FirePower

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Re: WILLIAMS SYSTEM 3 TO 7 DISPLAY ISSUES
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2010, 10:08:06 PM »
Daniel, when I first read you post I was going to send you a pm saying you're crazy or have been imbibing too much.   My reasoning was a display is just a display so modes wont make any difference to what is put up on them, so attract mode or game play - who cares from the display point of view.   Then I started wondering if it's maybe a timing and persistence issue - in attract mode the cpu would (presumably) spend a whole lot more time updating the display pia as it doesn't have to do game scoring and state calculations, maybe this is insignificant in the scheme of things, but I suspect it's not.  Imagine all the game code just bypassed because game is not in play, (yes, attract mode code has to run, but this, I think, would be much shorter and therefore faster).  I wasn't really convinced by this, but if I were desperate I'd look at it - maybe put the scope on the chip select pins when in display compared to game mode?

Another though along these lines is to look at the cpu data buffer chips IC8 and IC9 - notice that when in attract mode the data comes from the memory chips IC19 - it's just high score and last score and this will be supplied direct from the cmos chip. The cpu logic drawings show this.  In game mode data comes via the cpu through the buffer chips. The buffer chips have a read/write select input driven by a gate on IC7 - I'd look at this as well.  I think Cliff's guides says these buffers can be dispensed with - are yours still present?  I have a few boards, on some they are present on others they have been replaced by bridges.  If yours are present, I'd read Cliff and delete them if he agrees.  I might be clutching at straws here, but if I had the problem this is the path I'd be sniffing around.

I don't reckon it will be the BCD / 7 seg decoders - they work in attract mode and are fairly straight forward devices.

I also don't totally agree with your statement "It a master display issue for sure" - what happens if you put your Gorgar master display in Time Warp? If my theorising above is correct I would expect the Gorgar master display to  play up in Time Warp in the same way you describe.

Offline ddstoys

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Re: WILLIAMS SYSTEM 3 TO 7 DISPLAY ISSUES
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2010, 10:44:49 PM »
I actually worked out why it looked ok in attract mode its constantly pulsing a zero but not at full strength  on all the dud digits so in attract mode all these digits are zero anyway so it looks right

Offline ddstoys

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[FIXED] WILLIAMS SYSTEM 3 TO 7 DISPLAY ISSUES
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2010, 11:15:51 PM »
Well the problem is solved ended up being the resistor pack gave it a good Jiggle and the top plate fell off it completely so if you ever have a few digits flickering dull while the correct number is displayed gove the resistor banks a good jiggle then test with a MM

Made up a dodgy replacement till i can get hold of a proper one

Yeah Time warp is working 95% just need to repair the sound board  $#$