Container Pin Issues and Discussion

[pinnies4me]

I have been upset reading so many problems lately with pinball sales, mostly from privately imported containers, and issues that many have met due to misdes-cription, defects, etc. I have a number of emails from members describing what to me are horrible stories, and as there are so many similarities in the stories its hard to not believe that the seller or sellers are at fault.

As a forum we then get placed in a situation where a seller who is a member wants to have a thread deleted because it casts their sale in not so good a light, or they claim or threaten that the posts are defamatory.

So here's an idea and I would like members to specify if they are for or against the idea, and if against, their reasons. I deliberately did not make this a poll so that we avoid any anonymous "No" from people with a vested interest in hiding from their mistakes.

The idea would bee a rule along these lines:

Any member who intends to list a game or games for sale agrees that as a condition of doing so, they authorise the purchaser to post their experience of the sale and/or the game. The member who sells the game agrees that they will not ask the forum to remove such posts, and agrees they will not take action against the forum, its members or administrators and owners for any posts in relation to the sale which they consider inaccurate or defamatory.  The member selling is always free to post their position, and the ultimate removal of posts or threads will be at the discretion of the forum administrators. 

Please post your thoughts.

[ajlaird]

Sounds fair.

However, it is reasonable to expect the buyer to attempt to resolve issues with the seller before posting negatively on the forum.

[pinnies4me]

Sounds fair.

However, it is reasonable to expect the buyer to attempt to resolve issues with the seller before posting negatively on the forum.

Agree, but that's assumed, and I'd expect the buyer would be smart enough to try and resolve it first.

[MartyJ]

I support the idea in principle. Any pin I have sold on AP I would welcome feedback from the purchaser whether positive or negative. However I would hope if there was an issue I was contacted directly first to resolve it.

I definately think a sticky thread should be at the top of the for sale section with tips for new people to the hobby giving advise & tips on what to look for.

[Ant68]

Yep sounds fair to me also .Pretty transparent that way .

[48]

+1

[markc]

why not add any member  whether it be a container pin  , private collector ,  had since new , dealer , repairer and so
this should be for ANY machine listed  to be fair on everyone
pinball , video game , crap ,playfield and so on

more control on the threads though I feel is needed , to save the bitch fights and some members here trying to divert the attention away ,or dragging other sellers  in . if facts can be proved these should be made available for everyone or at least the mods to see.  more so if going down this path maybe emails be produced  to protect everyone , site included.  I know its allot of work moding a site and reading every post  

just putting my thoughts forward , if the help good if not  , just my 2 cents

mark

[pinballheaven]

Agree.

The proposed rule change is a very logical and rational rsponse to some vitriolic posts over recent times. I agree with Mark's comments that it should apply to anyone who uses the forum either directly or indirectly to sell their items.

Jeff

[pinnies4me]

I appreciate Mark's points about other sellers, but we haven't had any complaints (that I am aware of) with any of our sponsors,but of course the rule can apply to any sale of any sort as suggested.

As far as proof, emails etc - my position (subject to the other Admins) would be that we would not want to be judge and jury. We'd just have to play it by ear.

[Caveoftreasures]

The bottom line is, that sellers who look after people, KEEP AND DESERVE A GOOD REPUTATION. AND great sellers get praised, and bad sellers get complained about.

I have always sung the praises for Mark C cause he has looked after me with 5 different machines over a 12 month period. I have NEVER personally met the man, yet he continues to always be professional and his word is 1 million percent perfectly honest.

If you do a great deal with a seller, ANY SELER, TELL people on the forum. BECAUSE PRAISE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS A COMPLAINT, about any seller.

There has always been a rerason I have promoted the sellers I like, cause it might help other members, or newbies, also get a great deal and get looked after like I have.

IF U GET LOOKED AFTER, TELL EVERYONE. There is no bias in doing that. NO-ONE sings a sellers praises unless they deserve it.

[ddstoys]

I think its a good idea if your going to sell pins to members be honest and stand by your promises

[Caveoftreasures]

P.s- I agree with PINNIES4ME idea.
Anyone selling anything on the forum, shld be happy to have a purchasers comments made public (which is democratic in this country anyway).

Perhaps, a new area could be developed on the forum, with a standard template could be filled in.
Lets call the area "RECENT PURCHASES/RECENT SALES". (MONEY shld be kept out of it for confidential reasons).

Machine Purchased - Twilight Zone
Purchased from - Seller x
Machine condition - Project/New Machine/Machine from a Personal Collection/Container "As Is" Pin/Parts Only
Overall Purchase/Sale Comments - Happy, Unhappy, Why 

etc etc
I am sure the Mods could come up with something better.
It can be a area where people can post great/respectful comments about sellers etc without fear of being called bias or whatever.

But overall, If one area is designated, the rest of the forum wont be a fighting ground.

[rads]

I do think you should be able to post any comment you like about sellers as long as you are factual.  This is difficult because everyone interprets sale descriptions and condition differently.  It is a minefield.    I assume I am liable for any defamatory posts I make.  Can you explain to me your legal reposnsibilites, if any, as moderators?  Are you liable for defamatory comments made by members? 

[Pintoxicated]

Not a bad idea to make it known that any comment/s about transactions conducted via the forum, may be listed for others to see.  It already happens but if it is there in black and white that any deal may be subject to comment on the forum it can't hurt just as long as it doesn't turn into a 5 page slanging match.  Perhaps any comments on the deals done should be kept between the buyer and seller only to avoid any friends or foes putting their 10c worth in.  That way it should be kept short and factual, no hearsay or bias.

Alternatively, could a feedback system, similar to that on eBay, be incorporated into the forum software?

End of the day, you got nothing to hide - you got nothing to worry about.

[Creech]

Are you liable for defamatory comments made by members? 

How long is a piece of string? I have no idea what the answer to your question is.