Container Pin Issues and Discussion

[markc]

feedback system is a good idea too
Aussie Arcade  had this
when you purchase from another member you get to leave a plus 1 or neg 1
these totals are next to you name

[pinball god]

I've read all the posts except for one in this thread as its happening as I type. I disagree with the buyer comments for one reason only. Comments are based on a person's interpretation of a situation, product or even perception. I have owned a business and have managed several tech's and I have heard client's say don't let so and so back into my place, he's hopeless, rude whatever, and then other cleints will tell me that same tech is the best tech in Oz. Go figure??? In the industry I was in, I was hated and liked and I can tell you categorically I treated everyone the same and I still am blown away by comments I heard people I thought I did the best for, slagging me.

Back to the subject - The rule is reasonable BUT if you are positive and honest with yourself that a wrong has been done to you (commercially), then spend $30 and go to VCAT. No lawyers, not crap, no legal costs or awards for legal costs and the judgement is final. I find this sorts out the honest from the dishonest people in the world.

I like this forum for the companionship and humour and people helping others, I don't need non-judical people and people guessing on points of law and interpretation to make jusdgements here. You buy in good faith via mates here. If you find a rogue, this venue will make them see reason usually prior to the sitting (if you get what I mean).

I honestly think the forum would be a better place keeping this kind of fighting and annomosity out of it. Money stuffs everything in this world IMO

[pinnies4me]

Back to the subject - The rule is reasonable BUT if you are positive and honest with yourself that a wrong has been done to you (commercially), then spend $30 and go to VCAT. No lawyers, not crap, no legal costs or awards for legal costs and the judgement is final. I find this sorts out the honest from the dishonest people in the world.

...I don't need non-judical people and people guessing on points of law and interpretation to make jusdgements here.

VCAT is only available if the sale was in trade or commerce, and some of these sales would not qualify, leaving the buyer **only** able to take private action, and therefore needing a lawyer.

The judgements of VCAT aren't final by the way - it's just a tribunal and subject to appeal to the real court system.

[pinball god]

Dunno about that (sorry for not quoting but I can't see what I'm typing) as I have some unhappy people that haven't gone any further. But you could be right and you get my drift in that dishonest people don't persue things very far.

Anyway I still stand by trying to keep this stuff out of the forum, but what is proposed sounds good in theory and I would agree to the terms knowing who I am. Unfortunately I have grown more and more concerned the longer I have been in business. I'm going through a bad deal at the moment in building a house. So far I have a front tap for $90K  I'll see how it pans out before I take action (there may be a good reason hmmmmm) But I won't name the organization simply because I could have unrealistic expectations. I don't believe so, but I'd hate to be wrong and cause someone problems for nothing. That's my point.

+1 for the idea otherwise

PS anyone wanting to buy a brand new tap for $75,000 selling below cost 

[Strangeways]

Naturally, I'm going to agree with the rule. It is beneficial to the Buyer and the Seller.

Of course, it is assumed that issues are attempted to be resolved, as they are on eBay, before the issue is raised on this forum. I've been fortunate enough to meet some really great pinheads on and off the forum from buying and more specifically, selling my games. I'm also lucky enough to play machines I've sold if they are local. It has always been "about the hobby" or "about the machine" for me.

The ability of the seller to describe the machine honestly and the ability of the buyer to understand what they are buying and what the seller is describing - holds the key to a good transaction.

Whatever the outcome of this thread, one thing is for sure, the Admins will not be the "Judge Judy", but by adhering by the suggested rule, the members will be able to work it out for themselves as buyers or sellers.

[pinball god]

Naturally, I'm going to agree with the rule. It is beneficial to the Buyer and the Seller.

Of course, it is assumed that issues are attempted to be resolved, as they are on eBay, before the issue is raised on this forum. I've been fortunate enough to meet some really great pinheads on and off the forum from buying and more specifically, selling my games. I'm also lucky enough to play machines I've sold if they are local. It has always been "about the hobby" or "about the machine" for me.

The ability of the seller to describe the machine honestly and the ability of the buyer to understand what they are buying and what the seller is describing - holds the key to a good transaction.

Whatever the outcome of this thread, one thing is for sure, the Admins will not be the "Judge Judy", but by adhering by the suggested rule, the members will be able to work it out for themselves as buyers or sellers.

I dunno Nino, I reckon you'd look pretty hot in one of those black gowns and a nice hair do, little make up  But serioulsy I'm always for trying so give it a go and change the rules (if needed) as time goes by and we see what works and what doesn't. Obviously the current SELLING format doesn't work 100% so it needs to change. Thanks for hearing my thoughts anyway.

[studley67]

i was just an innocent party,nino,hope i did`nt start all this....

[Strangeways]

i was just an innocent party,nino,hope i did`nt start all this....

no one has started anything Damien. We just need to get some ideas on how improve the buying and selling experience on AP. As Rob was saying "it is not 100%".

[studley67]

i think the seller should be made to make more posts before allowed to sell.imho...

[pinball god]

i was just an innocent party,nino,hope i did`nt start all this....

Hope I haven't offended you Studley67 as I know nothing of what the thread refers to except for the proposal put forward. So take anything I say with a grain of salt. I don't get too serious on the forum

just saw your response, I agree be a big contributor and get some runs on the board as far as integrity. 

[studley67]

no offence taken...the admin know how i view this topic.and i will not elaborate on the issues.

[Caveoftreasures]

Everyone on the forum, usually always gets along 99 per cent of the time.

A few people have been dis-appointed of late with a few purchases here n there. Its not the end of the world, and overall, it will make the forum a better place with a slightly revamp of how machines are sold between members. ( I am excluding professional companies here cause there have been no complaints made against them to my knowledge, just a few part time people in the industry).

I still say that the "difference" between what has been sold, and what has been purchased, is more of "mis-communication" than anyone being blatantly dis-honest.

More photos, more written information, a video, anything added to anyone's "for sale" machine will help.

It is a fine balance of "never combine business with pleasure" , but the reality is, that people purchasing, need to do more (questions, request photos etc, take a experienced friend to view a machine etc) and some sellers need to do more as well.

I see things getting alot better over the coming weeks with all members working hard to achieve the desired effect to keep this place fun, and commercial, at the same time.

[Pinmem]

There are a few key factors to consider here when a 15 Year Old pinball is sold and should be added to any survey so there is no confusion.

1. Did the seller inform the buyers with a description and photos or if local view the machine.
2. Was the pinball sold at a fair price.
3. Is the seller and buyer happy at this stage. If Yes then you do not need to go beyond this point
4. Is the seller contactable with his after sales serive.
5. If any issues arrise does the buyers contact the seller via email or phone to resolve the issue.
6. Is the seller flexible with meeting the demands of the buyer and if not state reason.
7. Once an agreement has been made for compensation on a partial refund or full refund then the matter is closed.

Also as the seller is responsible for the item his sells, then at what point does the buyer take responsibility for purchasing the same item.

Oscar

[Homepin]

Buyers will always have different experiences even if you sold the exact same pin to 10 different buyers.

I might buy it and find several small faults and simply fix them - and be happy.

Another buyer (maybe with little or no electronic or mechanical/handyman skills) might be horrified with the discovery of a few small things and throw his hands in the air and scream "I've been robbed"

The simple facts are:

(1) a pinball machine is a fairly complex piece of electronic & mechanical engineering made DOWN to a price
(2) most of the complaints are coming from sales of machines that are 20~30 years old

Seriously - what does a buyer expect???? Too much I suspect.

[Creech]

Seriously - what does a buyer expect????

The short answer is...honesty!