Container Pin Issues and Discussion

[Caveoftreasures]

Quote fromm Oscar.

There are a few key factors to consider here when a 15 Year Old pinball is sold and should be added to any survey so there is no confusion.

1. Did the seller inform the buyers with a de******ion and photos or if local view the machine.
2. Was the pinball sold at a fair price.
3. Is the seller and buyer happy at this stage. If Yes then you do not need to go beyond this point
4. Is the seller contactable with his after sales serive.
5. If any issues arrise does the buyers contact the seller via email or phone to resolve the issue.
6. Is the seller flexible with meeting the demands of the buyer and if not state reason.
7. Once an agreement has been made for compensation on a partial refund or full refund then the matter is closed.

Also as the seller is responsible for the item his sells, then at what point does the buyer take responsibility for purchasing the same item.

Oscar

My reply
Well said Oscar. If adhered to, It doesnt get fairer than that. My purchase worked out fine in the end.

[Homepin]

yes sure - but if I sell a machine I'm certainly NOT going to document every scratch and small mark or faded piece or dent - the machine is old - work with that! I fully expect that a machine I buy may have a few lamps out or maybe a switch or two that is a bit dodgy - unless EVERTHING is replaced what can a buyer expect to be getting? I'll tell you, a timber box full of 20 year old parts - simple as that!

Seriously - what does a buyer expect????

The short answer is...honesty!

[Strangeways]

The age of the machine is irrelevant unless it is of course NIB.

You can still describe a 35 year old machine as honestly and accurately as 5 year old machine. As long as you are familiar with the older machines, then you are in a position to sell them. Most dealers are in "unfamiliar territory" with EMs, and I quote from a dealer (not an AP Sponsor) - "EMs are too hard to fix and you cannot get parts for them anymore". That's because the Dealer has no experience in preparing and selling EMs. If a dealer sells an EM - it is usually as a "project" - as they don't know if it is complete.

Same can be said selling a DMD. If you don't know the product then you need to ask others. This applies for a private sale or a dealer. Ask any dealer or importer about the process of preparing a machine for resale into the home market. There is a process that is very simple - "as is" - straight off the container - all bets are off - what you see is what you get. Reconditioned or restored - pay big $$ but have a look at each coil sleeve. They will be replaced. It is the "somewhere inbetween" that catches most. This is where you need to look at the machine, play the machine, look under the playfield and adjust the pricing accordingly in the spirit of the sale. I've never heard of "partial refunds" or "freebies" post sales. This should never happen if the two parties agree.

Bottom line - regardless of age, make or color - go and see the machine. This eliminates all doubt. Not all sales go to plan, but there are ways to make it an enjoyable process !

[pinball god]

I've just had a thought that may need addressing. Recognized dealers command higher prices because (I suspect) the customer expects better service, maybe a better product and I suppose better product knowledge. Are we expecting too much from the one time seller and even the part time seller. I keep going back to what I know and/or experiences and I can honestly say I have sold some of my cars privately and know jack shit about cars. So someone buying my car, IMO is getting a fantastic car seeing I look after them, but look under the hood and it could (for all I know) be a piece of shit.

That's where I think the buyer needs to take a little responsibility because they are obviously bypassing the Dealers to get a cheaper price etc. So the buyer needs to insist and be more dillegent in getting all the information he/she requires to make that final decision (and IMO more so risk analysis). I can't see the seller providing any more information if he/she is somewhat inexperienced in the field. This however, does not excuse the seller who purposes misleads a buyer!!!

So I think we may need to formulate a "Sellers information sheet/checklist" that needs to be adequately completed before an item can be posted.

What do you reckon?

BTW I have primarily purchased from dealers except for a couple of times and there is a difference in product quality.

[Strangeways]

I've just had a thought that may need addressing. Recognized dealers command higher prices because (I suspect) the customer expects better service, maybe a better product and I suppose better product knowledge. Are we expecting too much from the one time seller and even the part time seller. I keep going back to what I know and/or experiences and I can honestly say I have sold some of my cars privately and know jack shit about cars. So someone buying my car, IMO is getting a fantastic car seeing I look after them, but look under the hood and it could (for all I know) be a piece of shit.

That's where I think the buyer needs to take a little responsibility because they are obviously bypassing the Dealers to get a cheaper price etc. So the buyer needs to insist and be more dillegent in getting all the information he/she requires to make that final decision (and IMO more so risk analysis). I can't see the seller providing any more information if he/she is somewhat inexperienced in the field. This however, does not excuse the seller who purposes misleads a buyer!!!

So I think we may need to formulate a "Sellers information sheet/checklist" that needs to be adequately completed before an item can be posted.

What do you reckon?

BTW I have primarily purchased from dealers except for a couple of times and there is a difference in product quality.

Excellent observation.

Important to note - Dealers (well some dealers) prepare machine to a standard which is recognised as the "bar". Some delears will do more, some are absolutely horrible (Rag in one hand, nifti in the other).

Private collectors who have imported containers have prepared machines BETTER than the "bar" set by dealers. This is because they have no overheads. 20 - 30 hours reconditioning a pinball is probably around the mark. So the opportunity to prepare machines to a higher standard presents itself to the private importer. It is an option. Conversely, the private importer can take the other road, and almost undercut the dealers.

Both senarios are presented to the private importer.

But the principle still stands - the standard between the "as is" and the "fully restored" is a very long piece of string. That can work to the buyer's advantage.

[pinnies4me]

Interesting to see some of the comments, and I understand and appreciate that the buyer has to take some responsibility.

But that said, it seems some of the comments are suggesting that my idea is not acceptable - the idea is simple-

Mention on the forum you have a game for sale = you agree that you will not object to a member posting about the experience.

Sure, some buyers are anal and we all know the type - I bet they'll get shot down in flames when they post that they found two lamps that were not new!!

Of course we'd expect a disgruntled buyer to try and negotiate first. Of course blatantly incorrect things can be removed.

But to those who are against a rule that says -

Mention on the forum you have a game for sale = you agree that you will not object to a member posting about the experience.

What are you afraid of?

[goodolddays]

Interesting to see some of the comments, and I understand and appreciate that the buyer has to take some responsibility.

But that said, it seems some of the comments are suggesting that my idea is not acceptable - the idea is simple-

Mention on the forum you have a game for sale = you agree that you will not object to a member posting about the experience.

Sure, some buyers are anal and we all know the type - I bet they'll get shot down in flames when they post that they found two lamps that were not new!!

Of course we'd expect a disgruntled buyer to try and negotiate first. Of course blatantly incorrect things can be removed.

But to those who are against a rule that says -

Mention on the forum you have a game for sale = you agree that you will not object to a member posting about the experience.

What are you afraid of?

Seems nice and clear to me Nick 

[rads]

Interesting to see some of the comments, and I understand and appreciate that the buyer has to take some responsibility.

But that said, it seems some of the comments are suggesting that my idea is not acceptable - the idea is simple-

Mention on the forum you have a game for sale = you agree that you will not object to a member posting about the experience.

Sure, some buyers are anal and we all know the type - I bet they'll get shot down in flames when they post that they found two lamps that were not new!!

Of course we'd expect a disgruntled buyer to try and negotiate first. Of course blatantly incorrect things can be removed.

But to those who are against a rule that says -

Mention on the forum you have a game for sale = you agree that you will not object to a member posting about the experience.

What are you afraid of?

I nor anyone else I know would be afraid as long as I was allowed to reply.

[Creech]

Quote fromm Oscar.

There are a few key factors to consider here when a 15 Year Old pinball is sold and should be added to any survey so there is no confusion.

1. Did the seller inform the buyers with a de******ion and photos or if local view the machine.
2. Was the pinball sold at a fair price.
3. Is the seller and buyer happy at this stage. If Yes then you do not need to go beyond this point
4. Is the seller contactable with his after sales serive.
5. If any issues arrise does the buyers contact the seller via email or phone to resolve the issue.
6. Is the seller flexible with meeting the demands of the buyer and if not state reason.
7. Once an agreement has been made for compensation on a partial refund or full refund then the matter is closed.

Also as the seller is responsible for the item his sells, then at what point does the buyer take responsibility for purchasing the same item.

Oscar

My reply
Well said Oscar. If adhered to, It doesnt get fairer than that. My purchase worked out fine in the end.

turncoat (ˈtɜːnˌkəʊt) 
 
—n 
 a person who deserts one cause or party for the opposite faction; renegade

[shansta]

At the end of the day - make as many rules and checklists as you want.

If you sell on a public forum - you HAVE to be honest.

Word of mouth is everything.
If you rip someone off - even if you can talk enough shit to keep you customer happy, you are dead. Simple.

(Which is sort of what this thread is about I think....)

Me personally - I would be shitting myself selling a machine to you guys!

Perception is everything - damage that a Mark/Daniel/Nino wouldn't even bat an eyelid at, could be a deal breaker for some people?


Mark - what's the warranty on that class of 1812?   

[ddstoys]

That's it Shane the bigger the piece of shit the better lol

[markc]

Mark - what's the warranty on that class of 1812

yes  its called concrete .... once it leaves it its f%^ked .......

hey did i or did not not call those cheap things pieces of  !
i have always done my best to call em as I see em
i am not perfect though and are happy to say this

just try my coffee !  

back to topic
happy with what nick said , but at the end of the day its buyers beware too , I am happy to link AP to my site,  happy to link AP to my ebay adds , happy to link AP to my mail outs , so you must stand behind what you sell , you can never please everyone though , but all you have to be is HONEST , if is a dog call it
its easier to remember the truth but harder to remember lies .............  

I could say some stories  , from the last ten years.......

 

on a side note glad to see a topic that could have easily turned very nasty , going alone nicely  this can only be good for the buyers , the site and sellers too

[markc]

That's it Shane the bigger the piece of shit the better lol

not much more I can say about this ,
they are waiting for you 

[shansta]

That's it Shane the bigger the piece of shit the better lol

not much more I can say about this ,
they are waiting for you 

I tried to buy it - Toni cracked it and said "fix that f***ing Caveman first"...   

[studley67]

oouch