Author Topic: Bally Rockmakers issues  (Read 2871 times)

0 Members and 15 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ddstoys

  • Trade Count: (+23)
  • ******
  • High Score Initials:
  • Forum Posts:
  • Geelong
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2010, 08:48:49 PM »
The globe is turned on when you open the door so you can see the credit meter

Offline shansta

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Vic...
  • I want to migrate... To Qld...
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2010, 09:03:36 PM »
The globe is turned on when you open the door so you can see the credit meter

Should have put it above the relay bank...  :lol (And thanks mate  ^^^)
Why is it called PMS?
Because "Mad Cow Disease" was already taken...

Offline Bennyfactor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ***
  • Forum Posts:
  • Butler, Perth
  • Soon, soon...
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2010, 12:25:38 AM »
re: the globe, it's off when i turn the machine on and it's tilted, when i trigger the tilt relay and the tilt turns off the light comes on too  !@#

Quote
go to translation sites and decode the relays - especially the HOLD relay, youll get some cranky translations as its word specific.

I hit up google translate and got some idea of most of the relay names, but not knowing what relays to expect I'm still confused on a few

the info about Hold relays helps a lot  ^^^
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 01:23:37 AM by Bennyfactor »

Offline millsy

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Illawarra
  • pinballaustralia.com
    • Pinball Australia
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2010, 01:22:29 AM »
Without activating any relays manually. What exactly happens when switched on,left flipper pressed and start button activated ?
Is the tilt light on, game over light on etc.?
Does the machine start at all i.e score motor turns, score wheels resets, ball kicks out etc ?
Millsy
pinballaustralia.com

Offline Bennyfactor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ***
  • Forum Posts:
  • Butler, Perth
  • Soon, soon...
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2010, 01:28:02 AM »
Quote
What exactly happens when switched on,left flipper pressed and start button activated?

2 player game lit
player 1 lit
ball in play 1 lit
tilt lit

flippers don't work
score motor doesn't turn
score wheels don't reset
ball doesn't kick out

BTW you were 100% on the money Retropin, got the playfield lights back on now  @@*
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 01:32:30 AM by Bennyfactor »

Offline millsy

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Illawarra
  • pinballaustralia.com
    • Pinball Australia
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2010, 01:44:27 AM »
Now manually activate the start relay (I use a stick -50volts ouch) On my Bally it is 5th relay from front on right bank of relays. Does anything happen.
By the way are any of these relays activating (on hold) when powered up ?
Make sure all bounce switches are closed and clean (clamp a alligator clip on them)
Tilt roll switch is not contacting housing (Thats that thing above the tilt bob) it usually has a ball that rolls along it.
Finally make sure the start button contacts are making good contact.
Also make sure there is a ball in the return or close the switch
This is the start up sequence :
Bally Start-Up Sequence.

1.Coin is inserted into the game. The coin relay will energize. It will stay energized through its own hold-in switch and a score motor switch. If the credit button is pressed (instead of a coin being inserted) and there are credits, the credit relay will be energized which energizes the coin relay.
2.The coin relay will energize the lock relay (this turns the general illumination on). The lock relay will stay energized through its own hold-in switch and a delay relay switch.
3.The coin relay will energize the reset relay, through a game over relay switch (if your game won't start, try cleaning the contacts on the game over relay; a very common Bally problem).
4.The score motor will operate. This will energize the score reset relay(s). The score reset relay(s) will attempt to clear the score reels to zero. This is done by operating the score motor. 5.Each turn of the score motor will operate the reset relay once, which in turns moves a score reel one position, until the score reel(s) are at zero. If the score motor continues to run when a game is started, there's a good chance the zero position switch on the score reel(s) is dirty or mis-adjusted.
6.The coin relay, through the score motor, will advance the total play meter.
7.The reset relay, through the score motor, will reset the stepper units (zero the ball count and player units).
8.The coin relay, through the score motor, will decrement the credit unit.
9.The coin relay, through the score motor, will energize the game over latch relay coil.
10.The coin relay, through the score motor, will energize the 100,000 relay latch coil(s) (if the game supports scores greater than 99,999).
11.If the outhole switch is closed (single ball games) or the ball trough switches are closed (multi-ball games), a ball is released to the shooter lane through the outhole relay (single ball game) or ball release relay (multi-ball game) and the score motor.
12.On multi-player games, the credit button may be pushed again to add a player. This time the coin relay will not energize the reset relay. Instead it will (through the score motor) advance the total play meter, decrement the credit unit, and advance the coin unit.

KEEP AT IT -YOU WILL NAIL IT
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 01:58:41 AM by millsy »
pinballaustralia.com

Offline Bennyfactor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ***
  • Forum Posts:
  • Butler, Perth
  • Soon, soon...
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2010, 02:11:44 AM »
sorry, didn't have the ball in when i powered it on before
i counted down all the credits before i turned it on
power on - score motor turned, ball kicked out, 1 player game lit, 1st ball lit, tilt lit

manually activated "halte" relay and tilt turned off, giving me the flippers back
manually activated "rugel ruckgabe" relay (pick up ball? maybe this means 'start') and the score motor turned over + ball kicked out

all the scores are already at 0000, so i don't know if it is resetting properly

when i drain the ball the player doesn't advance, just stays at player 1, ball 1

the "halte" relay is holding on when the game is turned on

--

i've found 2 slam tilt switches, one at the front and one at the back on the base
neither seems to be engaged, i.e. i can cause them to engage manually and they tilt the machine
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 02:21:48 AM by Bennyfactor »

Offline millsy

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Illawarra
  • pinballaustralia.com
    • Pinball Australia
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2010, 02:27:57 AM »
Will the score wheel register when eg a rollover switch is activated or if a 50 point relay (In Backbox) is activated.
Recheck all solder points at score motor and all relays thoroughly. Double check plugs in cab and backbox have been put on correctly.
Better still - get some sleep  ^&^ and attack it later.
And keep us updated.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 02:39:50 AM by millsy »
pinballaustralia.com

Offline Bennyfactor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ***
  • Forum Posts:
  • Butler, Perth
  • Soon, soon...
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2010, 02:35:56 AM »
found the actual start relay
there was a misadjusted switch
i've adjusted it and now i'm getting a slightly different start up sequence
now when i plug it i've got a buzzing coil (spielend 'playing' relay) if i manually switch the start relay or press the left flipper it goes off,
when i press the left flipper the GI turns on & score motor turns, when i press start the ball gets kicked out and the machine tilts

after i've manually fixed the tilt relay, targets and rollovers activate the correct relays and score motor turns but no scores register on the reels and player/ball doesn't advance

i've had kids around all day and this is the first chance i've had to look at the pinny, it's my therapy  %.%
it will be sleep time soon though ;)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 03:36:41 AM by Bennyfactor »

Offline goodolddays

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Riverstone NSW
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2010, 12:22:34 PM »
Great to hear you are making some progress . I love fault finding EM's .

I think the "rugel ruckgabe" relay is the ball release relay , given you have a multi player game.

In order to fix the game, you need to understand how it works (as no doubt you can appreciate). This is where the paperwork will help a lot, once you get it.
The startup sequence must be completed before the game will work (as Millsy has said).
The Tilt relay can only be activated by one of the tilt switches so there must be something wrong in the Tilt circuit somewhere. 
For now, I would suggest disconnecting the Tilt relay (by desoldering one of the wires connected to the Tilt coil lugs).  The Tilt feature is not critical to game play anyway. I suggest this as you need to tackle one problem at a time , and the Tilt issue can be dealt with later.

Does the Hold relay (Halte) still energise when you start a game (since you adjusted the switch on the start relay) ? Not sure what the purpose of this hold relay is , but would suspect it should normally be deenergised. Maybe whatever is triggering it , causing it to stay energized, is why the score reels don’t advance when you activate a target switch etc?
I need more room ! and more $$$

Offline Bennyfactor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ***
  • Forum Posts:
  • Butler, Perth
  • Soon, soon...
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2010, 08:13:27 PM »
when i turn on 'halte' isn't energised, i can start a game without it tilting now, but flippers targets and bumpers won't work without 'halte' energised  !@#
mysterious....

Offline goodolddays

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Riverstone NSW
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2010, 08:32:22 PM »
What did you do so you could start a game without it tilting ?
I need more room ! and more $$$

Offline Bennyfactor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ***
  • Forum Posts:
  • Butler, Perth
  • Soon, soon...
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2010, 10:49:33 PM »
What did you do so you could start a game without it tilting ?

adjusted the start relay switches? i'm not sure. i did fiddle with the tilt switches and when i press the start button 'tilt' flashes on and then off
maybe one of the tilt switches is barely touching and causing the 'halte' relay to pull out?

it seems that the 'halte' relay needs to be energised for the flippers to work


« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 10:58:11 PM by Bennyfactor »

Offline millsy

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • ******
  • Forum Posts:
  • Illawarra
  • pinballaustralia.com
    • Pinball Australia
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2010, 11:00:24 PM »
My sweethearts has the hold relay bypassed - not sure if this can be done on the Ballys.
pinballaustralia.com

Offline Bennyfactor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • ***
  • Forum Posts:
  • Butler, Perth
  • Soon, soon...
Re: Bally Rockmakers issues
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2010, 06:39:19 PM »
I haven't even opened the pinny this week, but now that my schematics and manual has arrived I'm going to dig right back in on the weekend  ^^^