Wizard Of OZ Pinball

[Ant68]

Does anyone know if Bumper has a ETA ?

[Pop Bumper Pete]

It is not pretty LEDs or toys that make a good pinball machine, it is the software that runs the game that either makes or breaks a game

What Jack should have done is to take any old pinball machine and fitted it out with his new hardware and got the software team working a lot sooner, thereby making a machine that showed the potential of his vision

Bally did this in the 70’s with Bow and Arrow, and there are the prototypes of FG and EBD that were built using the next generation of boards

[Caveoftreasures]

I agree with pbpete.

All we keep hearing is how clever JJ is, how loaded he is, and what an astute businessman he is.
What i keep seeing however is excuses and validation of his  fund raising requirements and basic business rookie errors.

If i was a multi millionare and wanted to do this, i would get a game done and
finished and then get it out there and sell the thing based on its merits. If you had the funds
and the belief in your product, then you should have zero hesitation in doing that.

spot on Wotto.
I think JJP hedged his bets. He asked for pre-orders etc upfront when he probably could have easily afforded to start this project without other peoples money. The software should have been started very early versus later. What he could have/should have done was to work on a basic operating system first, which then gets reshaped slightly for the next title, got that platform working first, then announced the JJP WOZ business model etc. It wasnt like he wasnt going to always need that pinball platform no matter what.
I wonder if they hacked/or could have hacked a Stern machine to copy the style of code, or at least copy alot of the foundation stuff to give them a much bigger headstart etc ?

If JJP had of come out of the starting blocks, announced all this new stuff, delivered on time, or before time with an exceptional product (widebody - LCD 26inch screen - 3 playfields - interactive toys - RGP Leds - Clear inserts - better cabinet graphics etc etc etc) then JJP would have made Stern look old hat, but by being so so very late, they now get lumped into the category of being no different to any other pinball manufacturer. **The problem here, is JJP wanted to be recognised as different, very different to anyone else in the industry. This has backfired. They now look the same, or even less productive than Stern. That may haunt them for a while.

.....And I know people will say that JJP was a start up compared to Stern, BUT it dont matter, cause when u come out n say u are going to be bigger, better, smarter than the competition, u have to deliver.
It wont matter when the machine is finally out, or will it. I see 50 percent less people putting money down perhaps on the next title, and will only committ to purchase once the machine is out.
I cancelled my WOZ order, cause of repeated delays and now want to see the machine first. I wonder how many othersd have pulled the pin...

[Strangeways]

There are many reasons why JJP has delays.. none of which are available to the public.
Once machine is finally out which im lead to believe will be Dec time... (but dont expect 1200 machines to be shipped out in a week etc.. it aint possible)

Im sure it will all come out in the wash.. reasons for the delays will probably be made known.
You can judge the machine then.. not the man

This is an important fact to remember. I'm sure once the dust has settled, JJP will have learned a hard lesson and be well prepared for his next titles.

I'm not a buyer, so I have nothing to complain about. But I'm sure everyone will end up with their game and be happy with it.

[Caveoftreasures]

Lack of experience building and designing pinball machines is the answer for all the delays ofcourse.

I thought his experience building redemption games n slot machines would have made up for it, but it didnt. No big deal. I think everyone was just hopeful for a machine that was going to be on-time. I dont think its a huge surprise its late. What else can JJP say to people except things took longer than expected and it was their first pinball rodeo.

If The Hobbitt is the next title, will JJP fade away with lousy sales ? thats the next big question......

[Ant68]

Everyone is entitle to there opinions,but Jack has had massive hurdles to get over that was out of his control .
And only he knows it ,no one wants to see this finished as much as him .
I can't recall Jack every saying he will be bigger and better etc etc , what he did tell me in person was he is not in same market as Stern .
Jack's a good friend of mine and will remain that way , he has my 100% support from the very beginning .

[Caveoftreasures]

I agree ANT(Tony) that he wants it finished ASAP etc, but the things out of his control bit, I respectfully have to disagree, or at least question it. Management of these issues is what controls it, versus it being out of his control ??
  One thing Gary Stern always talks about is that the pinball business is all about stock control, knowing exactly how much to order and exactly when, that the product cant turn up a day or two early cause it gets in the way, the fact that a day or two late holds up production etc etc. Its a really good video I watched (the recent Stern talk at the latest 2012 Pacific Pinball Expo) but it was this video clip which kept ringing in my head when I looked at the delays with JJP and WOZ.

Gary Stern kept saying that successful pinball manufacturing companies had CEO's that started in the stock rooms etc, he mentions Harry Williams, himself and a few others who all started and had the stock control side of the buisiness down pat. Infact, its this he talks about and not being late with your products/machines that makes u a winner in the pinball business. It makes me wonder, now that JJP is so late with WOZ, whether Gary chose the stock control topic and being ontime with your product etc topic, specifically for the 2012 PPExpo meaningly to set himself apart from JJP (or to highlight JJP's lateness).

He also says that a title that wont do well in Europe, or wont do well in a alcohol bar style location, will never do well.
(doing well is open for discussion ? is doing well 1200 machines or 5,000 machines etc)
When asked about WOZ, he mentions it wont do well in Europe, and askes will it be a machine people put into bars etc ?

Makes u think about things from his view( Garys pinball experience and overall stock control view). Stock control is the thing to master to get everything right, ontop of the other million problems of pinball design and manufacturing etc. The Pinball business in not a easy business, thats for sure.

[Retropin]

He also says that a title that wont do well in Europe, or wont do well in a alcohol bar style location, will never do well.
When asked about WOZ, he mentions it wont do well in Europe, and askes will it be a machine people put into bars etc ?

Big Buck Hunter?


Yeh yeh yeh..... JJP looks bad... Stern looks great. Gary is fantastic.

Arent Stern still releasing software codes for ACDC?

Gary is pooping his pants over WOZ.

Ok.. so we have continued delays, but this is no Wayne dickhead here.. we KNOW the game will get delivered. We KNOW that the cheap cost cutting exercises by Stern have been avoided. We KNOW that all boards have been made with the enthusiast being able to repair in mind..we KNOW that it will be a top quality machine once these last hurdles are over.
..And when that happens... all will be forgiven cos pinball people are like that... Have i got my machine???..Yes???.. Ok im really bloody happy!

I think JJP making Stern look smart is a bit of a over statement... Stern can put out 10 machines whilst waiting for WOZ... wont make any difference, JJP will still wallop Stern and Gary knows that which is why he had to put out a title like ACDC at a rock bottom price... OR.... maybe Transformers " mini me" for almost the same money...

I agree... Jack has been a bit naive when it comes to making a pinball, but he admits to that. I dont think he realised just how " cloak and dagger" it was going to be. He does now though.
Lesson learned.. move onto game 2.

To us the WOZ title is lame, but go into any US  online costume retailer and read the sections.... Halloween...Adult etc... then with a section all of its own... Wizard Of Oz.
This film is still huge in US.. theres something about it that hits the US tender spot.

I wont be buying WOZ and wont be buying a Stern.. have no invested interest in either. But i do believe in Jack at JJP and i do believe he will deliver all that he has promised.

Being unhappy because youve put money upfront and there are delays??? I dont need to be a Genco Fortune Teller to forsee that one... and i still scratch my head as to why someone is willing to stump up shitloads of cash for a concept... anyone ever seen the show " Hustle"?...

[Strangeways]

I agree ANT(Tony) that he wants it finished ASAP etc, but the things out of his control bit, I respectfully have to disagree, or at least question it. Management of these issues is what controls it, versus it being out of his control ??
  One thing Gary Stern always talks about is that the pinball business is all about stock control, knowing exactly how much to order and exactly when, that the product cant turn up a day or two early cause it gets in the way, the fact that a day or two late holds up production etc etc. Its a really good video I watched (the recent Stern talk at the latest 2012 Pacific Pinball Expo) but it was this video clip which kept ringing in my head when I looked at the delays with JJP and WOZ.

Gary Stern kept saying that successful pinball manufacturing companies had CEO's that started in the stock rooms etc, he mentions Harry Williams, himself and a few others who all started and had the stock control side of the buisiness down pat. Infact, its this he talks about and not being late with your products/machines that makes u a winner in the pinball business. It makes me wonder, now that JJP is so late with WOZ, whether Gary chose the stock control topic and being ontime with your product etc topic, specifically for the 2012 PPExpo meaningly to set himself apart from JJP (or to highlight JJP's lateness).

Third parties are involved in almost EVERY title. How do we know that the hold up is related to a third party license ? This is certainly out of Jack's control. JJP can only control what is under his roof. I'm sure that after the dust has settled, we will know more.

I find it ironic that you are comparing JPP and Stern. Stern historically have copied other manufacturers. That's what their entire Business model was based upon. "Innovation" and "Stern" are mutually exclusive. Here's comes an innovation to pinball in JJP, and Sterns response is to drastically drop the pricing on AC/DC - but produce their best game in 20 years. Coincidence ? Will the same pricing and quality of game continue ? The pressure is more on Stern in my view.

I'm not going to buy WOZ or a late model Stern. But I support both these guys for producing pinball. But we need to take Stern off their pedestal.

[Ant68]

True anything pinball related is a good thing .

[GORGAR 1]

There's a video of Bowen playing WOZ in the USA going around and it looks great the LEDs really do look awesome it's the best video I've seen so far I reckon it is a beautiful looking game.

Peter

[Ant68]

http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=91046&sitesection=wgnlanding&VID=23850656

[wonder]

Cant wait for mine to turn up sometime next year and dont mine the wait,as long as it complete.I have faith in jack to delivery a top class pinball and if by chance something is not right a bet he fixes it with out the drama.

Maybe Gary shouldn't have shalfed him with the LOTRLE pinball.Time will tell but I wish Jack all the best with or without the delays.

[Caveoftreasures]

The video is great.  Doesnt the clearcoat and the Leds on the playfield inserts and general illumination look fantastic. I was very very impressed by the look of the yellow brick road. Machine looks very upmarket compared to other videos we have seen because of the high definition camera used.

The reporter had no idea, what a dick ! Do people still play pinball he asks. He did alot of homework before that interview. And he couldnt tell it was a brand new pinball machine. The pinball player was talking about pinball and the idiot tv presenter is asking about basketball - schmuck.
Didnt the WOZ game look great but. Thanks for the video link !  

Also, in response to Ninos comments/questions, ? I thought the AC/DC price was only dropped in Australia because of a bulk seafreight purchase deal and a strong aussie dollar.? The quality has continued since AC/DC because X Men Pro etc is magnificent n full of great stuff. BUT, YES, Stern can always do better. Maybe AC/DC was the first machine released after Stern got a capital injection ?, and Steve Ritchie didnt want to release a dog like the three or 4 titles prior which were definately bad cost cutting machines. Only cause of AC/DC and X Men have I recently found praise for Stern.
Yes, Stern needs to step up to the plate now and do more on every title. That recent $3,000 Transformers home pinny is a embarrassment and I basically said so to Stern in a email.

[GORGAR 1]

Yep that's the video I was talking about how's the PF shine and super crisp and bright LEDs very impressive come on jack what's number 2 title I need to start saving.

Peter