Lady Luck is still giving me grief

[goodolddays]

I'm glad your loving it Gav .. its frustrating the hell out of me  

Did those tests .. no continuity as expected . I think that you are looking in the wrong place though , because when I isolated the 1 pt card reels (by opening that switch on the A player relay) the 10 pt reels side of the circuit worked correctly  

Really appreciate your help and input though as I am totally stumped by this one.

[goodolddays]

Sorry Gav .. I stand corrected .. you aren't necessarily looking in the wrong place .. I have NFI of what is going on with this machine .
It actually doesn't make sense that opening that switch stopped the problem, according to the schematic (which could be wrong of course 

[Retropin]

Sorry Gav .. I stand corrected .. you aren't necessarily looking in the wrong place .. I have NFI of what is going on with this machine .
It actually doesn't make sense that opening that switch stopped the problem, according to the schematic (which could be wrong of course 

Yes - you are absolutely correct... opening this switch should make no difference whatsoever... but it does!

 And the only way it can do this is if the 10pt card 1st player is at first increment and 8 or 9 are closed plus RO relay... this is the only way you can bust without actually going to 30 points which by passes all the relays mentioned.

If you are 100% sure that this stepper is in correct position then we have a logic fault somewhere.


Now... its all elimination and we have a starting point ( A player switch).. this is good as its a definate to work with and eleviates your problem.

Our path MUST be after this switch... but our fault may not be.... can you put the paper into A player switch again and see if 8 or 9 are closed and RO  when it hits 20pts.

Now player can also bust at 22pts yes?... this also by passes all the switches above through 20 pt relay and goes straight to bust switch... make sure that at 20 points, the 1 point relay isnt sitting at 2.

We are getting there.. i think.. LOL

[Retropin]

Try playing to 20 without 1 pt card stepper making contact.

Anything from 2 - 7 will bust, these are all linked via GREY with Black

 21 gives option of replay through outhole relay.

If 1 pt stepper is on anything other than 1 or zero when 20pt relay pulls in - you will bust

[goodolddays]

Sorry Gav .. I stand corrected .. you aren't necessarily looking in the wrong place .. I have NFI of what is going on with this machine .
It actually doesn't make sense that opening that switch stopped the problem, according to the schematic (which could be wrong of course 

Yes - you are absolutely correct... opening this switch should make no difference whatsoever... but it does!

 And the only way it can do this is if the 10pt card 1st player is at first increment and 8 or 9 are closed plus RO relay... this is the only way you can bust without actually going to 30 points which by passes all the relays mentioned.

Agreed and understood

If you are 100% sure that this stepper is in correct position then we have a logic fault somewhere.

I am 100% sure .. I have checked it many times


Now... its all elimination and we have a starting point ( A player switch).. this is good as its a definate to work with and eleviates your problem.

Our path MUST be after this switch... but our fault may not be.... can you put the paper into A player switch again and see if 8 or 9 are closed and RO  when it hits 20pts.

Now player can also bust at 22pts yes?... this also by passes all the switches above through 20 pt relay and goes straight to bust switch... make sure that at 20 points, the 1 point relay isnt sitting at 2.

Have already checked that but will check again

We are getting there.. i think.. LOL

[goodolddays]

Try playing to 20 without 1 pt card stepper making contact.

I already effectively did that when I opened the switch on the A player relay

Anything from 2 - 7 will bust, these are all linked via GREY with Black

Yes .

 21 gives option of replay through outhole relay.

Yes

If 1 pt stepper is on anything other than 1 or zero when 20pt relay pulls in - you will bust

Yes .. will check it 1pt card reel again and let you know

[goodolddays]

Ok Gav .

With the 'A' player switch forced open ..
'8' and '9' relay only activate when 1 pt card reel is on 8 or 9 (as they should)
Player 1 does not bust on 20, but player 2 does .. though note that in the manual it states that this switch is in player bust cct for player 1 only

Something interesting though .. with the game in play I can't get any resistance reading on my meter looking between anything and ground 

[goodolddays]

Hmm .. have just realised that earth wire for my stepdown transformer is not properly earthed . Will try running another wire from there to earth lug on main transformer and see what happens.

[Retropin]

A potential difference between 2 voltages giving false ground??  - ooh man thats a tough one to find... but it would explain your cranky resistance drops...... "Insert emitocon that has one raised eyebrow and strokes chin"

[goodolddays]

Great phrase LOL .
Just did that (ran the wire ) but fault persists .. DAMN!!!!

[Retropin]

Yeh - thought it might but no harm in clutching some straws

[goodolddays]

Took another look at 1 point card reels today and found a short between 0 position and 2 - 7. When I pulled apart player 2 reel I found a big burn mark on the pad for position 6 which was shorting to the centre track (earth input for the reel) . I had noticed this when i overhauled the reel but didn't properly investigate at that time DOH!!!

As that pad was damaged (and lifting from the PCB) I have cut it off as I was concerned about further damage and probs down the track. This means player 2 won't bust when score changes from 16 to 26 but can live with that .

Thanks for all your time helping me with this one Gav , really appreciate it    .

The hard lesson I have learned is be more thorough in future .

[Retropin]

Ok - so we had a short between 0 and the 2 - 7??

Yep - that will bust at 20 each time.

Awesome stuff!!! We solved it!

Thats put a smile on my face for the day that has... thanks! It was fun!   

[goodolddays]

Wish I could say it was Fun too Gav , but it ended up being a big pain in the butt for me .. at least it's fixed now 

[FirePower]

That's a tough fault to find.  Jaycar have some paint on pcb track repair stuff which might help out if you want to try and rebuild the track. Cat number NS-3033
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productResults.asp?keywords=ns-3033&keyform=KEYWORD&SUBMIT.x=0&SUBMIT.y=0

I never used it, so no idea if it will work.